The Death of Windows 10

[Sonic icons]

I truly wonder how different Win10 and Win11 are in their core, and whether this is just a move from MSFT to hugely monetize Win10 by basically making everybody buy licenses again and calling it "extended support".

copy of private email
from: Sonic Icons, universal expert
to: Satya Nadella, CEO, Microsoft

Hey Satya, calling your attention to an amazing idea you have overlooked so far. My colleague pablolie at AudioScienceReview suggests charging users for the Windows 10 to 11 upgrade (see this). You have failed to keep your eye on the ball, causing the price of my MSFT stock to be depressed - it hasn't even doubled in the last two years . It's never too late to course correct! Now's the time to announce a modest charge, in the $50 to $100 range, for all future Win10-Win11 upgrades, effective date start of the fiscal year (July 1, 2004). "Great companies have great customer service" - MSFT needs to ensure that our customers serve us even better in the future than they do now.

sincerely yours,
(etc)

 

[Digital_Thor]

I have been running dual boot for around 10 years. Windows to game and then Linux mint for everything else.
My now soon to be 80 year old mom - among other mature people I help out with IT - have been using Linux mint for years, without really missing anything.
Windows seem to make a fuss about anything it can possibly rip out of any modern hardware. Linux just boots and let me surf the net, handle/edit pictures, documents and audio, without interrupting me about anything, besides a little red exclamation sign, showing me updates are possible and available - not forced on me.
Windows also needs to be tweaked to keep num-lock on, adjust time properly and not turn into power save all the time. Further.... why the hell did they make installing printers and scanners so extremely annoying and complicated, with huge drivers filled with insane features that hardly anyone uses??
On Linux, I often just attach a printer - and print/scan within a minute. Maybe I need to fetch a pack of drivers - but often it just... works
Windows add layers upon layers of crap menus, rather than just keep the ones that already worked fine - which you end up finding anyway, as you dig deep enough. Hate their stupid system, that you just end up changing anyway - with a reg edit "hack", like the right-click menu

 

[Sal1950]

Thanks Sal, I'll have a look into that one. Really appreciate your input as I'd never even heard of it.

The linux desktop market is very fickle, so many are what we call distro-hoppers, always looking
for a new toy to play with. Quite a bit like many in audio, it's not about the tool or its performance, just
a "gotta have new toy to play with". LOL
I was a big part of the dev team for 7 years, the admin of the web site and all that. Back around 2005 we
were #1 at distrowatch, etc. Time moves on but IMHO an excellent desktop for folks wanting something that
just works.

 

[pseudoid]

The linux desktop market is very fickle, ...
Time moves on but IMHO an excellent desktop for folks wanting something that
just works.

Lately, I've been noticing that your posts appear to have a set limit for automatic line-breaks (CR/LF?): [Red arrows in screen-capture below]

Is this a LinuxOS/browser issue?

 

[Sal1950]

Check them both out, and I do think the rolling releases are the way to go for older people.

Yep if you don't want to fool with reinstalling the latest release every 6 months to get your apps up to date, a rolling
release like PC or Manjaro is the way to go.
The others are for the guys that want something to constantly play with.

Lately, I've been noticing that your posts appear to have a set limit for automatic line-breaks (CR/LF?): [Red arrows in screen-capture below]

Naw, I've been asked that before, it's just my typing/writing style and not like the look of long sentences.

 

[bluefuzz]

So is the consensus in general to go for Linux? Ubuntu/Mint etc.

Who's using a newish Ubuntu and thinks it would be bulletproof enough for my aged parents?

Personally I've never been a fan of Ubuntu or Mint. I have been pleasantly surprised how good recent versions of Fedora are. Probably the most stable and stress-free Linux experience I've ever used (and I have dabbled with most of the popular distros over the years). I could easily live with that as a daily driver if I didn't have several Macs which I still prefer, much as I want to like desktop Linux.

Perhaps take a look at Fedora's 'Atomic' distro versions Silverblue or Kinoite. They are fully containerised distros which may provide an even more reliable and easily maintanable system for your parents. Seems to be the way many OSes are moving ...

 

[bluefuzz]

Yep if you don't want to fool with reinstalling the latest release every 6 months to get your apps up to date, a rolling
release like PC or Manjaro is the way to go

I ran Manjaro for a few years. And yes a rolling release is great if you use your computer daily or at least weekly. Since I only use my Linux desktops sporadically (I'm a Mac guy by default), every time I wanted to actually use the Manjaro PC it had a truckload of updates to do before being useable and several times, if there had gone too long between updates, it borked itself and got into a tizzy about something. It could usually be fixed with a bit of surfing on the Manjaro forum or Stackexchange but in the end I found it not worth the effort.

I've found a semi-rolling release like Fedora more suitable to my needs.

 

[pseudoid]

It's actually quite fun to use.

Some thought Clippie was cute.

I did a bonehead move, and asked Copilot (keyboard entry) to "summarize accurate gossip about Windows 12 features and release dates":

Certainly! Here’s what we know about Windows 12 so far:

1. Release Date: Microsoft is planning to release Windows 12 in late 2024[1]. While this date reflects Microsoft’s internal thinking, it’s essential to keep in mind that it could be subject to change.
2. Codenamed “Next Valley”: The engineering codename for Windows 12 is “Next Valley”, following the pattern set by Windows 11’s codename, which was "Sun Valley"[1].
3. Prototype Desktop Redesign: Microsoft has already revealed a prototype desktop redesign that could be part of Windows 12. Changes include enhancements to the lock screen, notification center, and AI integration throughout the operating system]1].
4. AI Capabilities: Windows 12 is expected to feature enhanced AI capabilities, which could significantly improve user experience and productivity[2].
5. Improved ARM Support: Windows 12 might offer better support for ARM-based devices, making it more versatile across different hardware platforms[2].
6. State-of-the-Art Update Cycles: Microsoft is reportedly aiming for a three-year release cycle for Windows versions. If accurate, we can expect Windows 13 in fall 2027 and Windows 14 in fall 2030[1].
   Remember that these details are based on credible reports and leaks, but until Microsoft officially announces Windows 12, some aspects may change.

Also provided citations, to boot! Though, it did not say anything about the retirement of Windows Subsystem-for-Android, nor the potential for a very bright future of their Windows Subsystem-for-Linux (for dev/admin). No discussion about NPU hardware integration (as with SurfacePro+ARM).

Although the "The Death of Windows" has been wished by millions and for decades; it should be in GBoWR for being the most cursed human endeavor!

ADD: Brackets [] around linked citation/reference #s (for @kelesh).

 

[kelesh]

Certainly! Here’s what we know about Windows 12 so far:

1. Release Date: Microsoft is planning to release Windows 12 in late 20241.

18217 years from now?

 

[sweetchaos]

Many thanks to whoever mentioned https://endoflife.date/windows

I ended up installing Win10 21H2 IoT (LTS) for one project. 7 years of support is appreciated.

 

[AuricGoldfinger]

As a non-IT professional working in chemical engineering, I’ve found the transition to later systems (Win 8, 8.1 and 10) to be problematic, due to the shortage of spare time.

Win8 onward was a train wreck of UI annoyances, missing options and mouse gestures that seemed to be designed to make everything a time consuming circular headache. I could not afford the time to learn to navigate the convoluted nonsense of that OS. W10 was more familiar after reconfiguration, but it seemed to be one big spyware package. I prefer Win7 x64.

I may make an attempt to jump into Ubuntu or Linux if the system becomes user friendly to newcomers. I just don’t see it happening.

 

[Keith_W]

Some thought Clippie was cute.

And some people liked Hot Dog Stand.

When I was back in uni, not everyone had personal computers. So they would to come to my place and use mine for their uni projects. I would put this colour scheme on.

 

[restorer-john]

And some people liked Hot Dog Stand.

When I was back in uni, not everyone had personal computers. So they would to come to my place and use mine for their uni projects. I would put this colour scheme on.

This:

 

[Blumlein 88]

As a non-IT professional working in chemical engineering, I’ve found the transition to later systems (Win 8, 8.1 and 10) to be problematic, due to the shortage of spare time.

Win8 onward was a train wreck of UI annoyances, missing options and mouse gestures that seemed to be designed to make everything a time consuming circular headache. I could not afford the time to learn to navigate the convoluted nonsense of that OS. W10 was more familiar after reconfiguration, but it seemed to be one big spyware package. I prefer Win7 x64.

I may make an attempt to jump into Ubuntu or Linux if the system becomes user friendly to newcomers. I just don’t see it happening.

Linux is already pretty user friendly. Maybe a few things kinda like learning a different dialect on your native language. You'll easily get the gist but the odd turn of phrase may confuse you at first.

 

[threni]

Yep if you don't want to fool with reinstalling the latest release every 6 months to get your apps up to date, a rolling
release like PC or Manjaro is the way to go.
The others are for the guys that want something to constantly play with.

Another option is a LTS variant of Ubuntu. Supported for years plus upgrading between LTS versions is painless.

 

[KSTR]

Who's using a newish Ubuntu and thinks it would be bulletproof enough for my aged parents? Dad is 91 and using W10 on PC and iPhone/ new iPad. Their main two PCs will drop off W10 support next year and I want to either wean them on to W11 or ?

When my wife's Win7 laptop folded, I got her a new one with Linux Mint Xfce and touchscreen and it was a seamless transition for her, basically one session where I showed her that things still work the same, just look a little bit different in detail. She really hates computers and wanted something that just works, and Linux Mint provided.

But of course the person installing such a system needs to have some background knowledge as otherwise the standard install may not be the optimal UI experience... but that is true for any OS.

 

[KSTR]

ran Manjaro for a few years. And yes a rolling release is great if you use your computer daily or at least weekly. Since I only use my Linux desktops sporadically (I'm a Mac guy by default), every time I wanted to actually use the Manjaro PC it had a truckload of updates to do before being useable

That does happen with Win10/11 as well. I start a W11 "helper" laptop at work once a week or so only to find it stuck for half an hour or more to update itself.

 

[TonyJZX]

update speed is kind of a function of how powerful your machine is right?

eg. i have an old gen 10 laptop with 8gb and updates are kind of 'set it and let it run by itself while you go out for lunch'

my workstations like my 12 core 64gb xeon meat grinder seems to be not be bothered by updates at all

 

[KSTR]

update speed is kind of a function of how powerful your machine is right?

Definitely. Win11 is very good at hogging resources ;-)

A sleek Linux variant like Mint Xfce still runs fluidly on older machines from one decade ago. While the (auto-)updater does slow things down a bit you can still use the machine (and mostly you don't even need to reboot).

 

[Blumlein 88]

Updates on Linux are superior to Macos and Windows now.