The Death of Windows 10

[pablolie]

...
A sleek Linux variant like Mint Xfce still runs fluidly on older machines from one decade ago. While the (auto-)updater does slow things down a bit you can still use the machine (and mostly you don't even need to reboot).

I haven't had a single issue running full Ubuntu 22.04 on a *2007* Lenovo X61s. In fact I am typing this on it... Runs perfectly and with great response time for many things. But I guess the X61s was pretty premium and speedy in its heyday. But that's what I call longevity!

PS: The 100% CPU peak on the left is the tail end of running a big update. Otherwise just running the latest Logitech Media Server (now Lyrion) and Chrome. And the full 22.04 OS and all its apps, I didn't bother to trim anything to make the OS "lighter".

 

[Ron Texas]

Instead of the death of Windows 10, perhaps I should have called this thread the resurrection of Linux. For an OS which has about 3% of the desktop it's sure getting a lot of buzz around here. Some old hardware will get to run Linux, some will limp on without security updates and some will go to the landfill. There is also the possibility that security updates will get another 6 months or a year. That's happened before.

 

[pablolie]

Instead of the death of Windows 10, perhaps I should have called this thread the resurrection of Linux. For an OS which has about 3% of the desktop it's sure getting a lot of buzz around here. Some old hardware will get to run Linux, some will limp on without security updates and some will go to the landfill. There is also the possibility that security updates will get another 6 months or a year. That's happened before.

Not sure if other distros do it, but if you sign up for Ubuntu Pro (up to 5 machines are free), Ubuntu 22.04 (which was released in 2022) is supported until April 2032 (!). Without Pro, the standard support is April 2027 for 22.04, but it's so easy to move from LTS to LTS. I installed Ubuntu on the X61s referenced above around 2009, when it stopped being my work laptop. Back then you indeed needed to hack around a little bit to get everything to work (webcam, wireless), I seem to recall, but for many years now I haven't had to bother much with the Linux command line.

 

[Ron Texas]

Not sure if other distros do it, but if you sign up for Ubuntu Pro (up to 5 machines are free), Ubuntu 22.04 (which was released in 2022) is supported until April 2032 (!).

That's a long time. I'm wondering how the AI on the desktop thing will go now that the Copilot+ PC's are dropping. Note that Apple M3 chips also have onboard AI processing. The M4 series will have additional cores. So far my limited use of Bing Copilot has not impressed.

Old hardware running Linux definitely has its uses like surfing the web and writing memos.

 

[Prana Ferox]

Instead of the death of Windows 10, perhaps I should have called this thread the resurrection of Linux. For an OS which has about 3% of the desktop it's sure getting a lot of buzz around here. Some old hardware will get to run Linux, some will limp on without security updates and some will go to the landfill. There is also the possibility that security updates will get another 6 months or a year. That's happened before.

Your audience here is a bunch of tech dorks who are already predispositioned to twiddle

 

[Sal1950]

I may make an attempt to jump into Ubuntu or Linux if the system becomes user friendly to newcomers. I just don’t see it happening.

Depends on what you mean by "user friendly"?
Once installed, normally modern Linux is plug&play with most hardware.
The days of driver issues, etc; are over. In fact I've found on my dual boot PCLOS / Win10 that Win10 was more of
a PITA to get a couple things running.
There is and will likely always be the issue of Windoz applications not running on Linux, but the same is true of Mac's.
That's why I always keep my machine dual boot, I have 20years financial records in Quicken and a couple specialized audio related apps that don't run in Linux so keeping a Windoz partition around can be handy.
On the other hand, for the average computer user a Linux install can be completely transparent with apps available to do most anything Joe Sixpack would ever need.

 

[pablolie]

...
There is and will likely always be the issue of Windoz applications not running on Linux, but the same is true of Mac's.
...

For Microsoft Office apps, office.com does a good job -not great- that allows one to do a lot of stuff in any browser.

And you are right about compatibility and such, for the vast majority of people it is a very easy install these days.

 

[earik]

Software guy here. I use all three systems on a daily basis: Windows to support/build desktop apps, Linux for servers, and Mac for the web-app side of things. I can argue both sides of the Mac/PC debate, but I draw a blank when trying to think of any good reason to use Linux on a desktop. I spend a lot of my day writing code meant to run ON LINUX, and even I prefer to do that on a Mac instead. If your only use case is email or browsing, just get an ipad.

 

[pablolie]

Software guy here. I use all three systems on a daily basis: Windows to support/build desktop apps, Linux for servers, and Mac for the web-app side of things. I can argue both sides of the Mac/PC debate, but I draw a blank when trying to think of any good reason to use Linux on a desktop. I spend a lot of my day writing code meant to run ON LINUX, and even I prefer to do that on a Mac instead. If your only use case is email or browsing, just get an ipad.

I have never understood why some prefer certain OS for coding. I could not care less - I code in a browser window, basically, and the tools look the same across platform, with some exceptions I know of, but none that actually impact me.

 

[Ron Texas]

Your audience here is a bunch of tech dorks who are already predispositioned to twiddle

Perhaps it goes with the objectivist audiophile territory.

 

[Sal1950]

I draw a blank when trying to think of any good reason to use Linux on a desktop.

Security from malware, virus, etc.

 

[earik]

I have never understood why some prefer certain OS for coding. I could not care less - I code in a browser window, basically, and the tools look the same across platform, with some exceptions I know of, but none that actually impact me.

C++ for developing a Windows app can't be done in a browser. You need a PC. For web apps you've got more flexibility, but if I'm going to be sitting in front of a computer all day long, Mac is just a (significantly) better user experience. I don't have a horse in this race since I use them all and will continue to do so, I just don't see why anyone who has been given a choice between the three would pick Linux.

 

[earik]

Security from malware, virus, etc.

I dunno. When you hear of all these businesses getting hacked, ransomware, etc, that's all happening on Linux servers. But sure, on a personal level, you are probably safer from that stuff. On the other hand, you'd be even safer without any computer at all...

Anyway, not trying to be a troublemaker. If it works for you guys and you're happy, go for it.

 

[pseudoid]

Definitely. Win11 is very good at hogging resources ;-)

Only if you starve Windows11 (or any WinOS, etc.) of memory (quantity/speed).

My most recent gripe with Win11 is that they have gone and neutered "ControlPanel" and the "Settings" panel is an absolute design mess and half baked.
Yeah, OK! PowerShell and GroupPolicy/Editor are great tools... but they also need some integration and growing up.

 

[pablolie]

C++ for developing a Windows app can't be done in a browser. You need a PC. For web apps you've got more flexibility, but if I'm going to be sitting in front of a computer all day long, Mac is just a (significantly) better user experience. I don't have a horse in this race since I use them all and will continue to do so, I just don't see why anyone who has been given a choice between the three would pick Linux.

Isn't in the .NET framework these days? Just curious, I don't do Win 10/11 apps, but that's what I seem to overhear. I mostly use Python for the stuff I do, and try to popularize UML... :-D

 

[Blumlein 88]

I dunno. When you hear of all these businesses getting hacked, ransomware, etc, that's all happening on Linux servers. But sure, on a personal level, you are probably safer from that stuff. On the other hand, you'd be even safer without any computer at all...

Anyway, not trying to be a troublemaker. If it works for you guys and you're happy, go for it.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Many of the big hacks are from phishing or other security bonehead moves like having a stupid simple password. Things that don't much matter what OS is in use.

 

[earik]

Isn't in the .NET framework these days? Just curious, I don't do Win 10/11 apps, but that's what I seem to overhear. I mostly use Python for the stuff I do, and try to popularize UML... :-D

C++ Builder is what I've always used, which skips over .NET. You can visually design your forms, wire them up, and you're off. Lets you get things up and running super quickly, which helps with a small team. I've got millions of lines of code wrapped up in a 20+ year legacy app, so I'd say I'm probably committed to having a PC around until I retire.

With my current web project, I played around with Blazor for a bit to see if that would work for us, and it had some cool features, but there's definitely a price you pay for being in the Microsoft world, and one of those (like Windows) is bloat. It feels almost like some of their stuff is designed by committee. Anyway, I nixed that, jumped on Rails instead, and haven't looked back. I've been curious about Python for awhile, but never had a chance to work with it.

 

[Monster]

Well, I've eventually forced an 'upgrade' to Windows11 Home onto an an old, unsupported Windows 10 laptop that was doing nothing on the shelf. It actually runs fine but other than that, my first impressions of it are not good.

• The UI, out of the box, seems to be designed to appeal to the five to fifteen year old age group and reconfiguring it for adult use takes a while to figure out and some functionality is lost in the process.
• Setting it up for use with a local account without creating a dummy Microsoft Account, is pretty much impossible. Closing and deleting the accounts used for installation and creating a new local account is not straight forward and shouldn't be necessary anyway.
• Finding any of the old admin tools takes twice as long and twice as many clicks as it does in Win 10.

Now IT professionals and those who are more familiar with Windows 11, may have a load of hacks and shortcuts in their armoury to quickly and easily get around these problems. As for me, the interested amateur, I shall be sticking with Windows 10 for as long as possible and then decide whether to switch everything over to Linux in about a year's time. In the mean time, I can use this laptop to test to see which of the Windows 10 software I routinely use will actually run on Windows 11 to help with the decision I have to make next year.

 

[Ron Texas]

Well, I've eventually forced an 'upgrade' to Windows11 Home onto an an old, unsupported Windows 10 laptop that was doing nothing on the shelf. It actually runs fine but other than that, my first impressions of it are not good.

• The UI, out of the box, seems to be designed to appeal to the five to fifteen year old age group and reconfiguring it for adult use takes a while to figure out and some functionality is lost in the process.
• Setting it up for use with a local account without creating a dummy Microsoft Account, is pretty much impossible. Closing and deleting the accounts used for installation and creating a new local account is not straight forward and shouldn't be necessary anyway.
• Finding any of the old admin tools takes twice as long and twice as many clicks as it does in Win 10.

Now IT professionals and those who are more familiar with Windows 11, may have a load of hacks and shortcuts in their armoury to quickly and easily get around these problems. As for me, the interested amateur, I shall be sticking with Windows 10 for as long as possible and then decide whether to switch everything over to Linux in about a year's time. In the mean time, I can use this laptop to test to see which of the Windows 10 software I routinely use will actually run on Windows 11 to help with the decision I have to make next year.

To bypass the MS account requirement use a bogus ID [email protected] with 12345 as the password will work. You get an error message and then may proceed. As for the UI being designed for kids, you are going to have to elaborate to convince me.

 

[Monster]

To bypass the MS account requirement use a bogus ID [email protected] with 12345 as the password will work. You get an error message and then may proceed. As for the UI being designed for kids, you are going to have to elaborate to convince me.

The fact that you have to do an internet search to find a workaround for the dummy Microsoft account problem, to me, says it all. It should not be necessary. An option should come up to choose to setup with a local account only during the installation process.

Putting silly cartoon images in the search box, which then have to be removed by finding the right option to do that, having a compulsory news feed if you want the widgets that seem to be largely about Taylor Swift's latest activities, appears to me set to appeal to children rather than adults. The widgets are particularly irritating because if you could get rid of the news feed a weather widget, and maybe some of the others, may actually be useful.