The best way to bring audio enthusiasts from the dark side and see the light?

[Geert]

Of course there may be some Class D amplifiers out there that do, so please point me in their direction

Class D doesn't need the XXL components that make classic amplifiers visually attractive or impressive, like big transformers, capacitors and heatsinks. All this things are the result of their power inefficiency. If you want class D in a more exclusive design you can for example look at Jeff Rowland, Devialet or Gato Audio.

(The Hegel H95 is not class D by the way).

 

[Suffolkhifinut]

Wouldn't the real answer to the title of this thread be, "massive quantities of electroshock therapy"? With a follow on dosing of Thorazine? It just "might" get them in the proper frame of mind to actually learn something. Short of this treatment regimen, I don't think anything will work.

Hey, I'm just spit balling here! Throwing everything out to see what sticks. But, I do like this treatment though....for pesky subjectivists.

Yet your comments about us are so Subjective. Can’t spend any longer on this too busy listening to a graph.

 

[mhardy6647]

Class D doesn't need the components that make classic amplifiers visually attractive or impressive, like big transformers, capacitors and heatsinks. All this things are the result of their power inefficiency.

Heh. Like dual exhausts on a motorcar -- with big chrome-plated tips.

... or the status symbol that being fat was in past times,when food was relatively scarce and expensive.

 

[anmpr1]

When attempting to bring anyone over, it's best to do it casually, and in a friendly welcoming manner. Because that's how most of us first wound up on the Dark Side, in the first place.

 

[steve59]

Why bother? unless you're invested in what you're trying to convert you audience to? I understand KV using Dr Toole as a strong marketing position to develop a profitable company, but I don't understand the preachy, "we have to save the souls" of audiophiles when what the end result is cash diversion.
I need a carrot, my carrot is a beautiful, great sounding stereo I take the time to match component by component to compliment my listening room. Finding and matching components is the process that I enjoy. I admit that back in my trailer park days I connected a graphic eq to my realistic receiver driving my kenwood speakers, but I never tried to convince anybody my $1000 system would compete and no settings on my eq convinced me I was satisfied. This forum fascinates me.

 

[pseudoid]

Why bother? unless you're invested in what you're trying to convert you audience to?

Confoozling?
In relation to the post' subject line; it appears to me that you speak of a 'snake-oil salesman'.
It should NOT always be about "wut$ in it 4 me?"; as some post-replies keep attempting to hammer that concept back in vogue.

 

[steve59]

There was jehovah's witness that used to come to my house whenever he had a new recruit and we would go a few rounds before agreeing to disagree. Are you guys here trying to save the world from audiophiles or audiophiles from snake oil salesmen? then why not find a cause that's looking for your help?

Everyone is entitled to their own truth and that truth should be sacred to them until they try to impose that truth on another. No doubt somebody smarter said it way better.

 

[pseudoid]

Are you guys here trying to save the world from audiophiles or audiophiles from snake oil salesmen?

I'll choose one when you expand the choices to at least three or four... and maybe more? None? Both? Etc.?

 

[gaburko]

Enjoying music is ultimately a personal and subjective experience. To each his own. One of the most annoying things is proselytizing.

 

[NDRQ]

Another issue, that the overengineered trash products are clearly not enviromental friendly.
We living in the 21.st century and we still making obsolete things like vacuum tubes? wtf...

 

[pseudoid]

Another issue, that the overengineered trash products are clearly not enviromental friendly.
We living in the 21.st century and we still making obsolete things like vacuum tubes? wtf...

Sounds like a progressive concept.
Same can be said of wet-wipes but both products are considered hygenic. One above the belt-line and the other... errrr... you know!

 

[Vain]

Class D doesn't need the XXL components that make classic amplifiers visually attractive or impressive, like big transformers, capacitors and heatsinks. All this things are the result of their power inefficiency. If you want class D in a more exclusive design you can for example look at Jeff Rowland, Devialet or Gato Audio.

(The Hegel H95 is not class D by the way).

Bit of a catch 22 then because we are naturally biased towards subjectivity - and vision contributes 80%+ to that. So if the goal is to move more people towards Class D (for cost, environmental, better sound etc reasons) then they need to be more visually appealing, more tactile, better design pricniples etc - and probably better marketing

Of course that will drive cost up and reduce environmental benefits but ultimately if two amplifiers both look great, and one is a cheaper and better, then it's more likely that more people would make the switch

Shows you what I know about Hegel - but their insides look awful

 

[steve59]

I'll choose one when you expand the choices to at least three or four... and maybe more? None? Both? Etc.?

I'm just spitballin

 

[RobL]

Enjoying music is ultimately a personal and subjective experience. To each his own. One of the most annoying things is proselytizing.

 

[audio2design]

Nothing has more impact than listening. I can see people's faces when they listen to my system. They know it's good. They always have lots of questions, even the die hards.

 

[pseudoid]

Enjoying music is ultimately a personal and subjective experience. To each his own. One of the most annoying things is proselytizing.

Nice choice of words... especially, the last one you used!
Maybe you did not get the memo that music is THE universal language.
Whether you want to enjoy it personally and/or subjectively is your gig; But it is not relevant when you are talking about billions of people with such personal/subjective music enjoyment.
Sharing the joy of music is more of a social gig, you see?
WHAT? No one has ever turned you on to something that is related to music (hardware or media)?
WHAT? You never shared some music you 'personally' loved with your friends or relatives?
Have you even just peeked at the great ASR post about "What are we listening to right now"? There must be over 650+ pages, that the locals enjoy sharing w/like-minded members.

 

[Frgirard]

Nice choice of words... especially, the last one you used!
Maybe you did not get the memo that music is THE universal language.
Whether you want to enjoy it personally and/or subjectively is your gig; But it is not relevant when you are talking about billions of people with such personal/subjective music enjoyment.
Sharing the joy of music is more of a social gig, you see?
WHAT? No one has ever turned you on to something that is related to music (hardware or media)?
WHAT? You never shared some music you 'personally' loved with your friends or relatives?
Have you even just peeked at the great ASR post about "What are we listening to right now"? There must be over 650+ pages, that the locals enjoy sharing w/like-minded members.

You haven't attended jam sessions in a train station between musicians who don't speak the same language. But you seem very sure of yourself

 

[DanielT]

Though, what does it really matter? Of course, one can show that a wristwatch for a few $ shows the same time as a wristwatch for an insane amount of money.... but people will still continue to buy that expensive wristwatch

People can do as they please.

There is a small problem with my parable, but you will probably figure out what it is.

_____

Tease the shit out of them, say nothing, write nothing, just send this to them:

Or swim calmly and ignore everything.

I understand the commitment to this issue but:

Curb Your Enthusiasm - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Let them go on .. They can fight against their windmills as much as they want.

Don Quixote - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[billyjoebob]

Nice choice of words... especially, the last one you used!
Maybe you did not get the memo that music is THE universal language.
Whether you want to enjoy it personally and/or subjectively is your gig; But it is not relevant when you are talking about billions of people with such personal/subjective music enjoyment.
Sharing the joy of music is more of a social gig, you see?
WHAT? No one has ever turned you on to something that is related to music (hardware or media)?
WHAT? You never shared some music you 'personally' loved with your friends or relatives?
Have you even just peeked at the great ASR post about "What are we listening to right now"? There must be over 650+ pages, that the locals enjoy sharing w/like-minded members.

WHAT? Don't you realize that I am trying to save you from yourself.
WHAT? Dont you realize that I'm right and your wrong.
I understand wanting to help, but when it's this forced it comes off as arrogant.

 

[ahofer]

There’s really nothing more tiresome than audio talk degrading into dick dubious credential measuring, whether it be musical chops, “experience in audio”, or golden ears. Enjoying music, and talking about it, is not the exclusive province of musicians, audiologist, engineers, and people who can’t hear above 8Khz but can, stranger than true, recognize a ”night and day” difference when you move a cable two inches.

As a former musician, I can discuss performance and music theory. On the other hand, as an avid concert-goer, I have a decent, and very different, perspective on that experience. As recording or electrical engineers, others on this site can help us with how measurements are best done, or perhaps bring us up to date on the latest research in psychoacoustics. We even have telecom/utility pros who can tell us about the weird physics of long (i.e. miles) cable runs.

But the idea that slapping down those credentials will fully resolve the subject of this discussion, or constitutes a conversational trump card, is ridiculous. You might as well pull out your driver’s license.