The best way to bring audio enthusiasts from the dark side and see the light?

[mhardy6647]

The Dark Side...

 

[Axchisler]

12

 

[JSmith]

12

JSmith

 

[Axchisler]

Errrrm, wha happen?

 

[Capitol C]

Lots of thoughtful and interesting comments here, for sure, and I apologize if someone has already said this, because when I say lots of, I mean it. But honestly, why bother? I'm a pretty calm guy, at least when I work at it, but all that happens when you try to discuss deeply-held beliefs that you disagree with is that people get defensive and very mad. As an example, we live in a time where most people are completely committed to their political beliefs, a lot of them thinking that the other side is evil. Both sides can't be right, which means that a lot of people are wrong, yet the next step, of being humble enough to say maybe I'm on the wrong side, is very difficult for most people. Remarkably, the same hyperventilating occurs in most audio forums. (Thankfully not this one!) My advice: Chuckle about it, and enjoy the music. And an adult beverage. Both of your choosing.

 

[JSmith]

why bother?

Starting to agree with this... as some will never change backwards thoughts, like this posted on another forum today;

"You seem obsessed with measurements. I completely disregard any form of measurements, as nothing can be proved or disproved."




JSmith

 

[Axchisler]

"You seem obsessed with measurements. I completely disregard any form of measurements, as nothing can be proved or disproved."

Hey I saw that . That was a quote from Moe on "The Three Stooges."

 

[Marc v E]

Very interesting thread.

Looking back at my own transition from audiophile by purily listening to where I am now, the thing that changed it was a friend's suggestion to look at this site.

The funny thing is, it was about an avr amp, not my particular interest but I thought I knew a thing or two from experience. Reading the review here on marantz avr's it prompted me to search for the brands I knew. Suffice to say I was surprised at what I saw.

Then at around the same time I started experimenting with streamers and comparing raspberry pi's with one costing 2000 euro at home. (Thanks to the kind dealer who loaned me one for a deposit.) The difference was neglegible if there was any.

Then I started experimenting with rew and recommended it to my friend. He noticed there was a big flaw in his speakers and upgraded them. Meanwhile I was searching for an affordable hifi on my desk for working at home. We both chose a recommended speaker from this site and the result was so stark it convinced me. The funny thing is I helped my friend realise he could get better for little money while I was discovering what he already knew about hifi gear.

I think the reason Amir gets such delight out of affordable hifi that it is the best way to convince people. Show the data and make it as affordable as can be to try it it for yourself.

 

[Capitol C]

Starting to agree with this... as some will never change backwards thoughts, like this posted on another forum today;

"You seem obsessed with measurements. I completely disregard any form of measurements, as nothing can be proved or disproved."




JSmith

I don't know if I should ask where that quote came from, or not. But it is a calm day, and I could use a laugh, so I'll ask...

 

[Mnyb]

Even this forum that is supposed to be for the rational audio enthusiast, you still find treads about sonic difference in spdif streamers , or sonic difference even among the best of DAC’s or other strange things the whole hobby is so drenched in this audio snakeoil that it’s literally everywhere, even here .

Even normal audio brands spread some amounts of thie FUD in thier advertising or design , otherwise they can not move any products .

Even KEF has f*ck*ng biwire terminals on thier speakers because it’s a must on high end speakers .
Saw an review video on KEF Reference where some lunatic provided his own special jumpers between the biwire terminals, instead of the perfectetly fine internal ones ... *sigh*
You can see brand name binding post on otherwise rational products ?

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

If everybody took to heart the 'correct way' and sought to purchase the 'correct' SOTA technology and format, wouldn't that be as boring as purchasing a toaster? We certainly wouldn't have enough interest to have a dedicated forum to cover it. Consumer Reports already tests toasters probably.

 

[Mnyb]

If everybody took to heart the 'correct way' and sought to purchase the 'correct' SOTA technology and format, wouldn't that be as boring as purchasing a toaster? We certainly wouldn't have enough interest to have a dedicated forum to cover it. Consumer Reports already tests toasters probably.

Oh I don't think where there yet , there still are many variables that can be discussed and fussed about forever even if you remove the most absurd ones. Or rather the remainder is more interesting and may lead to a more fun hobby .
And products are different than the function . Amplifier as a product vs amp as a function ? not the same thing . Actual products are quite different in many regards even the transparent ones.

We can chase our tail finessing speaker placements and room acoustics speaker dispersion and directivity etc combinations of processors dirac or audussye integrating subwoofers

We can stop listen to RCA connectors and try figure if WBT sound better than ETI research

 

[JSmith]

But it is a calm day, and I could use a laugh, so I'll ask...

Mate it wasn't even an audio forum sorry to say... a more tech style forum no less, which was rather surprising. I was just trying to help a person choose a new amp and dac, I wasn't "preaching" at all.

I basically said how can you make such a statement and continue to be taken seriously, you're shitting on decades of electrical science including a $30K AP analyser. Then something like, would you judge a graphics card by your eyes, rather than it's specs and benchmark testing. From there I said I'm done... as it all smelt like troll bait. Anyway, a few other members backed me up (on the objective side) and the person who was after a new amp and dac thanked me too for the in depth advice.


JSmith

 

[Capitol C]

Mate it wasn't even an audio forum sorry to say... a more tech style forum no less, which was rather surprising. I was just trying to help a person choose a new amp and dac, I wasn't "preaching" at all.

I basically said how can you make such a statement and continue to be taken seriously, you're shitting on decades of electrical science including a $30K AP analyser. Then something like, would you judge a graphics card by your eyes, rather than it's specs and benchmark testing. From there I said I'm done... as it all smelt like troll bait. Anyway, a few other members backed me up (on the objective side) and the person who was after a new amp and dac thanked me too for the in depth advice.


JSmith

Sounds like it came out ok, then. When I've gotten into discussions like that, it usually doesn't work out so well!

 

[freemansteve]

Per title: Can it be done? I know a few people who have religious faith in audio things, and there is no demonstration that will alter their point of view, let alone any reasoned argument.

 

[Foxenfurter]

The old adage is you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink applies here.

I had the same experience being a technical evangelist at a major investment bank 20 years ago trying to introduce techies to agile methodologies; oo designs; loosely coupled component architectures and web services. Most would go uh huh and carry on doing what they always did, a few got the ideas and forged ahead and some argued. Interestingly it was the uh huh mob who grind you down, as they simply don't care. The people who argue, well maybe you can persuade them to give it a go.