The best way to bring audio enthusiasts from the dark side and see the light?

[LTig]

How many black dots are there?

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Zero.

 

[voodooless]

How many black dots are there?

I didn’t know that one yet, very nice! Surprisingly it even works with one eye

 

[tomtoo]

How many black dots are there?

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Thx man! Thats a great optical illusion!
Its realy fantastic!

 

[Raindog123]

I wonder why some fields [of technology thus consumer products] are more receptive of “new” than others? In car industry, people generally accept “progress” and that the new technologies and solutions are superior to old/vintage ones… while in hi-fi not so much..?

 

[JayGilb]

The only thing that works will be the thing they are used to: being tricked!

So trick them, let them think they hear one thing, while in reality they are not. Watch them exult in audiophile prose, and then reveal what they have been really hearing.

If that does not peak interest, I guess it’s a lost cause.

Yes, find a non-working class A dinosaur with massive heatsinks, gut it and put in a class D module.

 

[mhardy6647]

Try convincing a GMC pickup truck fan to buy a Ford pickup -- or a gas guzzler owner to buy a Tesla.
O a BMW owner that a Chevy will get them to work at exactly the same time every morning as their Bimmer.

It is a source of constant and deeply ironic amusement to me that there's a thread here at ASR about...watches.
Any $10 Timex will keep better time, objectively (and measureably) than, say, a Philipe Patek watch.
Speaking of expectation bias -- or something like that.



Unless one's a financial advisor (or very close family member, e.g., spouse), how other folks spend their money is not typically of one's own concern.
I would say.

Oh. Except for Klipsch products. Friends don't let friends buy Klipsch.

 

[tomtoo]

Zero.

Nah, you have to count the right way!

 

[JayGilb]

I wonder why some fields [of technology thus consumer products] are more receptive of “new” than others? In car industry, people generally accept “progress” and that the new technologies and solutions are superior to old/vintage ones… while in hi-fi not so much..?

It's easy enough to notice computer tech improvements, a tiny $150 nuc that runs blazingly fast compared to a 5 year old desktop.
But the human brain takes over after the ear has done it's job and bias quickly kicks logic's ass.

 

[tomtoo]

I wonder why some fields [of technology thus consumer products] are more receptive of “new” than others? In car industry, people generally accept “progress” and that the new technologies and solutions are superior to old/vintage ones… while in hi-fi not so much..?

I would say its easy to see horse powers and gallons per mile. Much harder THD and FR.

 

[Jim Matthews]

I suppose if you put a modern flyweight amp into a chassis machined from something heavy it might be convincing. Many of us came of age pursuing audio gear with beefy transformers.

Weight was a proxy for build quality.

FWIW - I was on the fence until my JBL 708p arrived, in all their Class D glory.

 

[litemotiv]

I wonder why some fields [of technology thus consumer products] are more receptive of “new” than others?

I think it mainly pertains to areas where people feel their (old) product of choice is a work of art, instead of something built by a machine.

Art makes some people think about emotional aspects like passion and workmanship, they imagine the artist / engineer sitting in his workshop and lovingly putting his heart and soul into the product. Modern 'computer era' products don't evoke the same emotional response, people associate that with lifelessness and sterility.

So it's just another type of cognitive bias.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I think the McGurk effect the best one to show. Yours ears work correctly with eyes closed. When you watch the video your vision absolutely makes you hear it wrong. And even knowing what is happening you are powerless to hear it differently with your eyes open.

mcgurk effect - Google Search

 

[Apesbrain]

let'em find the path by themselves?
and if they don't, why care?

I remind myself that I also went through a period -- subscribing to Stereophile and The Absolute Sound -- where I'd convinced myself that "everything mattered", e.g. green ink pens, spray-on "clarifiers", glowing CD mats, CD demagnetizers. Only with time and personal experience did I move beyond this self-deceit. It's not worth my bother to try to change someone else's opinions. Relative to other made-up things people believe in these days, this audio stuff is harmless.

 

[Robin L]

How many black dots are there?

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12

 

[RickSanchez]

As @litemotiv mentions: don't try to do battle with an entrenched belief system.

That said, one approach you could take -- I do this myself; not so much for audio, more with social/political discussions -- is to simply state your values. So, for example, you could say:

• I don't trust manufacturer-supplied specs; they can be far too influenced by the Marketing dept. As such I really value independent 3rd-party measurements to show me the specs of what a device can actually do.
• I value a device (let's say a DAC or an amp) that is transparent. I don't want a device that is "colored" or has a specific "sound signature" that will affect all the music I play through it. I want to control the sound via EQ.

So you're not undermining their belief system, at least not directly; nor are you trying to convince them of what they should buy. You're simply stating your values / decision-making process when it comes to evaluating and buying audio equipment. They can choose to absorb what you say ... or not. Those people who respect you and your opinion will most likely take your words to heart and give those words some real consideration; even if it doesn't immediately change their approach to audio equipment it might start moving them in the right direction.

 

[antcollinet]

I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit... It's the only way to be sure.

 

[litemotiv]

That said, one approach you could take -- I do this myself; not so much for audio, more with social/political discussions -- is to simply state your values.

Asking questions (shifting the burden of proof) can also be effective, albeit often time consuming and it may require a bit of restraint.

 

[SaltyCDogg]

One of my other interests is in the science based fitness industry. There's more rubbish believed about fitness and nutrition than there is audio and probably more deeply held beliefs.

One of the best personalities in that arena is Dr Mike Israetel. He has a lecture series that applies equally to any area called Arguing To Convince. I would recommend it.

 

[JSmith]

So, for example, you could say:

• I don't trust manufacturer-supplied specs; they can be far too influenced by the Marketing dept. As such I really value independent 3rd-party measurements to show me the specs of what a device can actually do.
• I value a device (let's say a DAC or an amp) that is transparent. I don't want a device that is "colored" or has a specific "sound signature" that will affect all the music I play through it. I want to control the sound via EQ.

That is almost word for word what part of my response was actually. Since then the discussion has continued and become much more amicable with one person now asking me for pre-amp recommendations. So I suggested the Pre90 or use a DAC with pre functions and also directed him to one of @John Atkinson's videos about the importance of measurements and how they relate to accuracy and enjoyment.

is to simply state your values.

Generally I approach things in a similar way... but sometimes people still get angry or even abusive, although often tend to come around at a later time to see some sense or at least appreciate the debate. I certainly believe more in discussion that silencing, however if the other person is unwilling as you say to see anything else apart from their way or when facts are presented that challenge their beliefs they simply dismiss them, then the discussion becomes pointless.


JSmith

 

[Ralph_Cramden]

Why bother? It's their money being wasted, not yours. They're happy with their misconceptions, so let them enjoy themselves, regardless.