The best way to bring audio enthusiasts from the dark side and see the light?

[ZolaIII]

Trough is that you don't need an amplifier that has higher THD+N on the level that analog transcender (speaker) can achieve with small enough THD when feed with power it needs to do it. And in the end you won't even push it play even that loud.
That's why folks around hire usually say buy better speakers or hedaphones not a 21 bit SINAD DAC or amp.
If it's a good, cheap quality product which will be enough for the best of those even better and I know even sub 500$ one's (power amplifiers as new) that will get you there.
In the end spend your money where you can hear it and if you are sure that you can at least I see it like that, best regards.

 

[DanielT]

For self-insight. Ask them how much and when they hear the difference. Then they get to test:

Blind Testing a 1 dB Level Difference

Discover the smallest difference in level (dB) you can reliably hear.

www.audiocheck.net

How Much Distortion Can you Hear?

An interesting test probably posted before although it didn't come up in a search. Also try difference sources ie ear phones vs speakers.

audiosciencereview.com

 

[Vain]

In my quest to seek out a better amp than my current one, there seems to be consensus that my current amp is perfectly fine and a hard act to beat. Suggestions were were along the line of room correction rather than what class amp to go for - and that pretty much all the amps in my shortlist were much of a muchness (at least one is Class D and one had it's own design entirely different from everything else). I wouldn't call a preference for Class A etc the 'dark side' with Class D being the 'light side' though.

I like my amplifiers to have a bit of heft and when I crack them open, I like to see the muscle - it's just a preference but not a hill I will die on

If less power consumption is really the only difference then that's probably not enough to shift the dial - and ultimately money is just money so cost isn't really enough either. Happy for someone to suggest an integrated Class D amp that's better sonically than my current amp - or any other amp in my shortlist though

 

[JSmith]

I wouldn't call a preference for Class A etc the 'dark side' with Class D being the 'light side' though.

Nah that's not what I meant at all... that aspect of the discussion was purely academic wherein a new $50K amp (250W) has been released and one person suggested that would be the pinnacle of audio simply due to the price and the fact it happened to be a class A design. I suggested there was no need to spend that kind of money for excellent performance including plenty of power output, then simply cited the Benchmark AHB2 as being much better value in comparison.

That was just one example, the discussion was in depth and covered numerous topics, so what I mean here by the "dark side" is those that live and breathe by many of those audiophile myths the majority of us here at ASR know are false or misleading.


JSmith

 

[Vain]

Nah that's not what I meant at all... that aspect of the discussion was purely academic wherein a new $50K amp (250W) has been released and one person suggested that would be the pinnacle of audio simply due to the price and the fact it happened to be a class A design. I suggested there was no need to spend that kind of money for excellent performance including plenty of power output, then simply cited the Benchmark AHB2 as being much better value in comparison.

That was just one example, the discussion was in depth and covered numerous topics, so what I mean here by the "dark side" is those that live and breathe by many of those audiophile myths the majority of us here at ASR know are false or misleading.


JSmith

I think there's a disproportionate amount of evidence needed to sway stongly held beliefs so it's a bit of a sisyphean task you're attempting

My brother will never concede that there's anything better that single ended 300B valve amps paired with Audio Note AN-E speakers - it's his happy place

 

[bloodshoteyed]

The best way to bring audio enthusiasts from the dark side and see the light?

let'em find the path by themselves?
and if they don't, why care?

i think it's the same as with the hen & the egg, there's no real end to the evergoing debate



take turns in sitting down and listening to eachothers systems (preferably while listening to "Dire Straits - Why worry" ) and having a drink, talking about something completely different.....

as @Vain said before me, everyone has his happy place

 

[Robin L]

Smile and nod, try not to engage if possible. Do not look directly into the eyes of an audiophile. Change the subject. Do not eat the food the audiophiles offer you. If your home becomes infested with audiophiles, start hanging wreaths of garlic. If you don't have garlic, use Alexa.

 

[DanielT]

I think there's a disproportionate amount of evidence needed to sway stongly held beliefs so it's a bit of a sisyphean task you're attempting

My brother will never concede that there's anything better that single ended 300B valve amps paired with Audio Note AN-E speakers - it's his happy place

Ha, there's a difference! In any case, if you (with the one I tested) turn up the bass tone control to max plus loudness pressed. At higher volume. I even SEE the difference how Vifa 8 "moved! Tube amp Singel End, 300B power tubes vs SS HK 670.

Okay, I squeezed the shit out of that tube amp, but still.

Do tube amps REALLY clip more gently than solid state?

I have read this assertion many times as a supposed reason tube amps are great. I like tube amps and remember fondly a couple I got from my uncle, but this "gentler" thing has always bugged me. My recollection and now recent mini-survey of Stereophile measurements shows all amps' distortion...

audiosciencereview.com

Edit:
Skip my waffle in that thread about tube amp theories. I actually have no idea what I'm talking about BUT what I described about how the speakers work is correct. I saw and heard that.
I guarantee to 100%, no imagination.

Edit 2:
Eh, I forgot, I'm going to sell it on commission. It is very good ! He he.

Seriously. It is good for its low power., from what I could hear (SUBJECTIVE), I'm not a tube guy. You can only do a little trick as I wrote in that thread. By the way Mr. DIY has read that thread and just laughed. Drive on, he said. An old DIY tube amp guy. Nothing new under the sun for him.

 

[tomtoo]

If someone would bring me out of my loved dark irish pub, into one of this shiny, new, all clean, fashion pubs i would be very unhappy!?

Maybe there are some similaritys?

 

[Katji]

Smile and nod, try not to engage if possible. Do not look directly into the eyes of an audiophile. Change the subject. [...]

...Disrupt the thread, way off-topic, and memes like Uh-huh.

 

[Katji]

those that live and breathe by many of those audiophile myths the majority of us here at ASR know are false or misleading.

You "spoil the hobby."
Guess who told their cousins that there is no Father Christmas.

 

[bloodshoteyed]

Smile and nod, try not to engage if possible. Do not look directly into the eyes of an audiophile. Change the subject. Do not eat the food the audiophiles offer you. If your home becomes infested by audiophiles, start hanging wreaths of garlic. If you don't have garlic, use Alexa.

forget everything i've typed, this is THE way to do it

 

[Booker]

There is no hope for some of them, they will pass with their ignorance away. The shame is that their opinion will stay published online, and some newcomers will get caught in the same trap.

If they do not interfere in your real life, who cares.

 

[Robin L]

...Disrupt the thread, way off-topic, and memes like Uh-huh.

Whatever else you might do, do not attempt to negotiate with audiophiles, they are worse than Ferengi.

 

[JSmith]

Guess who told their cousins that there is no Father Christmas.

You couldn't be more way off actually... I believed in that for some time after others did not and remember being gutted to find out it was false (although I suspected it was, I didn't want to believe it).

This is why I opened this discussion, to find the best way to let some believers in myth down gently and respectfully. Further, all opinions here are welcome, but best to play the ball not the man.

JSmith

 

[voodooless]

You couldn't be more way off actually... I believed in that for some time after others did not and remember being gutted to find out it was false (although I suspected it was, I didn't want to believe it).

Yeah, I also was one of those kids (well, in my case it was Sinterklaas, but same difference ). At least there was a mountain of evidence that points to the dude actually existing in my time... at least that's what I told myself . And at least in my case, it was a historical figure and not (only) a marketing gimmick. I saw his grave in Myra, Turkey (or Türkiye as Erdogan envisions the new name to be as to not confuse with the delicious dinosaur creature that still roams the earth (which actually translates to "turkey" ).

 

[ahofer]

I participate in two forums where subjectivity reigns - Audiogon and Harbeth Facebook Group. My rule is that I don’t overtly contradict people or push for evidence *unless* someone is asking advice about upgrading their amp, cables, etc. Then I step in and encourage them not to waste their money. You really can’t reason with someone who has already made the investment. At least in a short period of time and in an online setting.

Truthfully, my participation in both places has dropped to near zero. The really insistent subjectivists will pull out all the obnoxious stops to tribally excommunicate you and it gets really tiresome. I know @Willem has been bounced from the Harbeth FB Group, which is just amazing considering Alan Shaw’s position on electronics.

 

[BDWoody]

To me this is very "head in the sand" and "get off my lawn" type of attitude.

To them, you are probably like the people with Bibles knocking on their door when they are trying to watch the football game...

Generally, evangelism is a tough way to go.

If they ask, that's different.

If they are the mouthy ones, go for a $$$ bet. Otherwise...just smile and nod and be secretly glad you jumped off the crazy train.

 

[Robin L]

To them, you are probably like the people with Bibles knocking on their door when they are trying to watch the football game...

. . . or setting up their weekly Wiccan ritual . . .

 

[Raindog123]

Show them a few optical illusions, and then ask, that now, when they know they cannot trust their eyes, why they still think they can trust other senses like their ears.

How many black dots are there?