Tekton M-Lore Speaker Measurement Update

[RickS]

Weird how all pro monitors only need 1 tweeter instead of 15 to produce ~10% of the sound energy in most music.

It is America, isn’t more better?

The Moab struggles with low impedance so let’s add 4 more drivers and that should fix it!

 

[digicidal]

I mean... well... there was the Wall of Sound...
That was a whole lot of EV T350 tweeters

Yeah, but when your listening distance is well over 100 feet (in open air)... most of the issues tend to diminish. Even more so when you're as high as ~85% of the fans (and 100% of the performers) were.

I'm thinking a living room sized version would still basically sound like crap... even if you were right in the "sweet spot" - but I'm not about to attempt construction of a testable prototype... so I'll go with "SOUNDS GREAT!!!" to avoid potential litigation. LOL.

 

[Dialectic]

"Litigate and seek damages" sounds rather different from "our lawyers talking to each other."

Eric was lying about--among other things--his understanding of the word "litigation."

If he is done in this industry, good riddance.

 

[pseudoid]

I mean... well... there was the Wall of Sound...
That was a whole lot of EV T350 tweeters

Okay, smarty pants! Perhaps you may have beaten the 42 count of 'drivers' but the record was recently broken by the Sphere.

"The Sphere’s massive audio system was specifically developed for the venue’s unique curved interior. The system consists nearly 1,600 permanently installed and another 300 mobile Holoplot X1 loudspeaker modules, all promising to give engineers precise control of where sound goes in the venue. With each module housing a multitude of drivers, the venue boasts a total of 167,000 individually amplified loudspeaker drivers, backing up the venue’s claim to have installed the world’s largest concert-grade audio system."

Beat that!

 

[Bruce Morgen]

Good point. The Concert Grands were interesting in that many variants were sold. My recollection is that one could start with a relatively basic version and just keep adding drivers.

View attachment 364977

source: https://www.worldradiohistory.com/h...o-IDX/IDX/60s/Audio-1967-12-OCR-Page-0041.pdf

Back when I was an audio sales drone circa 1970, we had a pair of those sitting just outside the showroom gathering dust. Nobody was the least bit interested, but just for fun we hooked them up and listened -- definitely not impressive, especially considering their massive size. I have no idea how many drivers that pair had.

 

[Hatto]

Is this a winning or losing moment for tekton design?

View attachment 364809

This literally can't be real. Is it real? Nah, how can people be THAT stupid?

 

[JakeK]

By that assertion, I am unqualified to analyze the measurements. If so, who is qualified? Just because you disagree with my assessment, it doesn't mean that I should withhold my analysis of them. You can post and say what you want about them and vote. There is a reason we have grown so much. There is a ton of education that goes on through these reviews and methodology I use to present them. Just look at the Stereophile tests which follow your scheme. Hardly anyone understands them and hence the reason measurements had taken the backseat until I started to do them. Graphs need to be self-explanatory so that the issues it discusses can be seen. Some text way later does not remotely do that.

It would save me a ton of time just to spit out the graphs and type some text instead of spending hours in Photoshop to annotate them. I do it because they are hugely valuable.

Yes. Your work is hugely valuable to me as well as many others. Please continue!

 

[hearone]

Thank you @amirm

As much we may understand Eric’s point of view that a minor cabinet leak can, and will change the port turning, and measuring on a different axis will affect the measurement, I feel that the owner’s reaction was unnecessary.

The approach to critical feedback can be managed in a different way.

After all, this is not the same magnitude of problem like a gross error- like a driver being wired out of phase, or a damaged / non-functioning driver.

I would have thought that a different approach would be more constructive eg. Reflecting on limitations of being able to control a user’s set-up process (eg. not installing feet) or listening on the tweeter axis instead of the woofer axis.

I would think this is a better approach and better for public relations for all involved.
After all, Eric does seem to have other interesting designs worthy of audition / measurement / review.

View attachment 364801

Ulfberht

Named after medieval-era Viking swords, the Ulfberht loudspeaker is the ultimate hammer/butterfly of sonic expression, striking out at the listener with percussive elements and a velocity that matches…

tektondesign.com

I thought this was a joke- until I looked at the site. OMG

 

[Beave]

Regardless of the designer’s appalling behavior, why does this Ulfberht monstrosity merit any consideration?

Not that it matters as Amir is unlikely to deal with its size and Erin is not doing any more Tekton reviews. At over $20K, does not seem very competitive. Stereophile just reviewed a $30K pair of Moabs if you feel a need. For that spend, they are nothing special other than a 10 dB peak at 100 Hz but still somehow manage to get labeled as “neutral” sounding.

View attachment 364983

I would think one would readily get better value buying active pro speakers with some decent customization capability than these backwards Tektons that look like the designer shat drivers on a baffle!

p.s. am sure that hump between 2-3 kHz gives them added neutrality too!

Once again, JA's measurement technique causes confusion, even though the review text clearly states: "The rise in response in the upper bass will mainly be due to the nearfield measurement technique, but the Moab Be's low-frequency alignment does appear somewhat under-damped."

https://www.stereophile.com/content/tekton-moab-be-loudspeaker-measurements

 

[markus]

Let's see if that saying holds true...

 

[somebodyelse]

Let's see if that saying holds true...

...or whether he's 'done a Ratner.'

 

[Soniclife]

The reference line is whatever target was defined as the design goal. There is no universal absolute target.

That would be the quoted sensitivity when measuring other people's passive designs. An area calculation that deviates from that specification would really show up those fantasy sensitivity numbers.

 

[KSTR]

By that assertion, I am unqualified to analyze the measurements. If so, who is qualified? Just because you disagree with my assessment, it doesn't mean that I should withhold my analysis of them.

Amir, please read more carefully. First of all, you can do what you want, it's your platform. I was only suggesting that you might move the comments below the graphs rather than directly embedding them, this has nothing to do with whether I agree or not. If you have a feeling that people will be only be looking at the plots anyway and never read comments/captions and therefore the only way to propagate the information/description/judgement/opinion is by embedding it directly, then so be it.

 

[KSTR]

@Soniclife , I think were not talking about reference levels with regard to sensitivity, rather than the reference for the shape and quality of the frequency response.

 

[Mart68]

Back when I was an audio sales drone circa 1970, we had a pair of those sitting just outside the showroom gathering dust. Nobody was the least bit interested, but just for fun we hooked them up and listened -- definitely not impressive, especially considering their massive size. I have no idea how many drivers that pair had.

Some great copy in that ad:

''You can begin with as few as three speakers -a bass and a tweeter pair. Then, when you decide, add another bass and another tweeter pair. It's just like adding violins to your orchestra!''

 

[testp]

i enjoy reading Amir or Erin's comments in a review above / below / in the center, i personally care if they are there.. it gives another way of looking at it (measurements).
but that's my personal opinion.

what was the old saying...it's better to have and not need, than need and not have..

 

[welwynnick]

Legal fund for Reviewers/Erin?

The US legal system is unfortunately often more like a war of attrition on who can afford to keep fighting longer, and not about who's right. In general, the vast majority of cases settle before they go to court for this reason. Yeah it’s pretty awful. Some will sue knowing their case is very...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Seeing Eric Alexander design loudspeakers is like seeing a five year old design a house.

He knows how loudspeakers work as much as my daughter does.

 

[GaryH]

 

[markus]

If you have a feeling that people will be only be looking at the plots anyway and never read comments/captions

That's definitely what most do. Lots do not even understand what they are looking at.

An example: I have produced a step by step guide that has numbers in a screenshot. Below the image there's a detailed description for each step using the very same numbers. There were people that did not realize the numbers in the image do correlate to the numbers in the description right underneath. And even after being told so they were not able to follow a simple 7 step procedure. So directly annotating graphs is probably the best way to get (some of) the message across.

 

[KSTR]

@markus,
Yes, we can't fix stupid, and sadly most of the stupidity comes from these modern times, tiktok and all that. I have a friend who is university professor and she always says it so bewildering that most of today's students are not capable to concentrate on a topic for more than 10 minutes and have to be spoon-fed even the simplest things. Just alone extracting information is a lost art, it seems, let alone making up one's mind and learn how to interpret things.