Technics SL 1210GR2 Turntable

[mike70]

With a DJ turntable you want a high-torque fast-start motor and probably direct drive that isn't bothered by holding it against that torque. Also, you want a solid suspension, not soft-floaty suspension that makes it difficult to "cue" or back-spin without skipping.

...I have an older lower-end Technics direct drive and it takes about 3/4 of a revolution to get up to speed so it's not ideal for DJ use, but I did use it for a few DJ gigs back in the analog days. (I'm an occasional "radio style" DJ... I don't "scratch" records.


I've never heard a defect from a turntable unless it was super-cheap or broken. (I have heard differences between cartridges.)

So, the 1200s isn't "an audiophile" turntable then?

 

[DWPress]

I'll bet it sounds roughly the same as my Technics SL-D2 which hasn't failed me once since I purchased in the mid 80's.

 

[anmpr1]

1) But then the company pulled a bait and switch and transferred manufacturing to Malaysia and left new owners wondering how that happened. Last time I checked there was not publlic relations notice from Technics of this change.

2) I immediately noticed that the dots on the circumference of the platter that are used together with the strobe light to ascertain rotational speed were not properly aligned.

3) First and foremost the US Technics website (at the time this was taking place) was built in a way that made it next to impossible to reach Tech Support.

4) But as much as I wanted to avoid having to ship my turntable for fear of damage in transportation...

5) ... since these issues where present at time of purchase I am entitled to a new table, without these issues.

1) If the company did not promise you a made in Japan model, how was it 'bait and switch' or otherwise fraud?

2) The 'wobble' is present on all 1200 MkX models, as far as I know. I believe it is because of the casting process. However, at least on the two Mk 2 and Mk 5 models I've owned, this does not affect the 'flatness' of the platter as it spins. You can tell by watching the tonearm on a reasonably flat disc. Many years ago I owned the original 1200, but I don't remember whether that model had the 'wobbly' dots.

3) Welcome to the hassle of trying to deal with a large multinat corporation. They are usually not set up for end to consumer interaction, because the consumer is not their customer. The dealer is their customer. It is the same whether you try to call Sony or Harman et al. Not unique to Panasonic. That is why it is best to always buy from a dealer who will support you. Even if it is mail order. For example, Crutchfield (and probably many others, but that is one I'm familiar with) would have taken the deck back within the evaluation period, no questions asked.

4) That is not Panasonic's fault.

5) Whether you were entitled to a new deck? Does the warranty allow for that? Unless the warranty states that how can you claim it? Again, that is why it is best to go with a dealer with an established return policy. You did state you bought from a dealer... What did they say? I might have missed that part, mostly because your post was long and rather rambling, so I apologize for that if I did. Can you tell us what your dealer said?

 

[morillon]

In any case since this thread is for the Technics SL1200GR2 which is in effect a $400 more expensive SL1200GR with -as far as I am concerned- inaudible improvements I will share here my experience after a year of owning an SL1210GR for the sole purpose of warning others of probable pitfalls of owning one. Now, I understand beforehand that I will make some Technics fanatics turn sour on me, especially those who are dealers, resellers, accesory sellers and the like and who have a vested financial interest (or psychological attachment) in the brand but this is my experience which I want to share with others so that they are informed by a real case of ownership.

The story starts in December of 2022 when I bought a brand new SL1210GR from an authorized Technics seller. The price at around $1750 without tax or cartridge seemed a bit steep for a DJ turntable but was justified by the rave reviews in every audio equipment publication where the SL1200GR was not presented merely as a DJ table but hailed as a direct-drive audiophile apocalypsis. Of course, to people who have been watching the Technics turntable revival all this I am going to describe is not news. The brand had altogether abandoned the sector betting mistakenly that vinyl is dead. But with the vinyl resurgence experienced after the 2010's it is probable that someone at the Marketing Dept. thought it a good idea to return to making turntables. So when Technics came back in the game, the manufacturing of the new line of SL1200s was in Japan. On almost every publication online prior to 2019 the SL1200s are referenced as being made in Japan. But then the company pulled a bait and switch and transferred manufacturing to Malaysia and left new owners wondering how that happened. Last time I checked there was not publlic relations notice from Technics of this change.

This incident alone should have acted as a warning but despite all that, I had been convinced that the table had merits and wanted to add a direct-drive to my system for the first time. Upon setting up the table for the first time, I immediately noticed that the dots on the circumference of the platter that are used together with the strobe light to ascertain rotational speed were not properly aligned. So in every turn of the platter (33 1/3 of them in a minute) you had the line of dots wobbling up and down instead of appearing as straight line (which also should appear as completely stopped at the proper rotational speed). I found that very displeasing and annoying. That (again probably because of marketing) Technics opted for a blue strobe light just made things worse since there is very specific reason red is used in submarines during long dives. At this point I was so annoyed by the phenomenon that it interferred with my ability to enjoy listening to my records. Every time I started the platter I was overwhelmed with the thought that this cannot be right. That a company like Technics that has videos on YouTube of its workers in white gloves building the turntables could not have possibly allowed this to pass Quality Control. And since the production has just shifted to Malaysia it is not such a big mental leap to assume that it had been a contributing factor. Now, if the strobe and rotational speed were not such an integral part of the design and function of the table I may have not paid so much attention. But when it is central to the design and the effect so pronounced, one cannot just overlook it. I decided to return the table to the Authorized Seller and request a replacement unit. Indeed, the seller, to their credit immediately replaced it with a new unit.

But the new unit, same factory, same batch, similar production date had exactly the same dot wobble. So again, I had to assume that it was the particular batch that had the issue. I decided to speak to Technics about it and see if that is the case or if the tables actually are accepted at QC like that. That proved a much harder proposition to achieve as it turned out. First and foremost the US Technics website (at the time this was taking place) was built in a way that made it next to impossible to reach Tech Support. Because, in a single phone call to a proper Tech Support this issue would have been resolved right there and then. Technics would have verified that indeed this is acceptable behavior at which point I would have returned the table for a refund.

Without any possible way to contact Technics USA Tech Support the only other option the website permitted was to locate an Authorized Repair Shop. Left with no other option I decided to bring a brand new table in for inspection. But to my surprise the website failed even at that task as it returned zero authorized repair centers. With no other option I filled out the general "Contact Us" form on the webite, in the hopes that someone might forward my issue and attempt at communication with Tech Support.

But I never heard back. Two months passed by, I was getting used to the table but that dot wobble was just SO annoying. It made the whole thing look cheap. And I could not care less if the "advanced direct drive prevented cogging" or the "specially shaped tonearm prevented vibrations". The visual aspect ruined the whole experience. Mind you, I have not yet realized that the issues goes deeper and has also to do with platter tolerances. So far it was just the visual aspect for me. During this time I also researched my issue online and found several other people in online forums and with videos on YouTube pointing to the same exact issue. I sent a second "Contact Us" form to Technics USA and another two months elapsed without hearing back.

Annoyed by the fact that basically Technics offers zero Tech Support to its clients, outside of the return period to the seller and with warranty time ellapsing I decided to send a third "Contact Us" form, explaining exactly like the previous two times the issue and requesting tech support but this time around, I also threated to "reach out to corporate" (Japan) if I do not hear back. Lo and behold I get an email response. They gave me the address of a local Authorized Repair Center. So I call that repair shop, mind you it was a repair shop not any dedicated Technics facility, only to have the extremely kind owner inform me that they were not part of the Technics repair network anymore and that and they do not repair turntables at all even if I wanted to pay for an inspection.

As ridiculous as it may sound, Technics "tech support" was not even aware of what repair shops are still in their network. But the owner of the repair shop was kind enough to give me a 1-800 number to the actual "Panasonic Repair Center" (which turned out to be an outsourcing repair entity called "Professional Electronics" of Florida). I called the number and I was put in touch with the "Turntable Repair Department". I explained my issue and shared a video of the platter and the wobbling dots. All this has made it so that now we are in November of 2023, reaching almost a year after purchase. In the meantime all this was taking place I also came across videos of people who measured their platter for deviations from flatness. And although some will claim that you are not actually measuring platter flatness but also bearing alignment, the end result for me is the same; my platter either has axial runout or it doesn't. I have shared these videos here previously and I will share them here again for everyone's reference.

But as much as I wanted to avoid having to ship my turntable for fear of damage in transportation, "Professional Electronics" refused to provide any feedback on the issues. As it turned out my fears regarding the platter but also of shipping damage where spot-on. Regarding shipment, I have abysmal faith in the shipping companies respecting "FragiIe" marked equipment. I could literally picture my turtnable being kicked around and tumbling down stairs and getting all sorts of socks while in shipment. And to backtrack a bit, I only initially wanted someone from Tech Support to tell me if the dot wobble is acceptable as far as Technics is concerned. And going down that rabbit hole, little by little, I found myself debating with the company that Panasonic outsources their repairs to, if I want to send my table in for inspection. Of course the vested interest of the repair shop is to receive the commision for the repair from Technics. Thus all my efforts to explain that I do not wish to ship my turntable, that it may very well be damaged in transit and that insuring it does not really protect one from sock and acceleration damages that manifest at a later time and that there may not be an issue in the first place fell on deaf ears. I only needed and asked for one thing "Is my table OK or not, is this dot-wobble and platter runout acceptabe or not?".

After numerous back-and-forth emails and much pleading I decided I needed to know the truth, was there something wrong with my table in the first place or all this had been in vein. I shipped the table and made sure I insured it. It was received and after two weeks had passed I reached out again to find out what had happened. The head of the tt repair dept. informed me that my platter and motor needed to be replaced and that they were waiting for the spares from Technics. So there was something wrong in the first place! At that point I protested and said that I do not wish a "gutted" table and since these issues where present at time of purchase I am entitled to a new table, without these issues. The reply I got was that "they do not have new tables in stock as they are just the Technics repair facility and that they cannot do anything about it". At that point I had no other option but to allow the repair to proceed so I get the turntable back in my possesion and then reason with Technics about a replacement.

When I got the turntable back from "Professional Electronics Florida" the box was in terrible shape. It had holes all around, like it was pressed against corners and when I opened it, the manual was mangled and dirty as if someone had stepped on it. The sides were also missing the ductape and the top was loosely taped together. The styrofoam inside was broken in pieces and it was clear the box had opened during transit, emptying the internals on the ground and then whoever tried to put them back together had stepped on them and had done a terrible job of trying to hide the fact.

This was EXACTLY the reason I did not want to ship the turntable in the first place. I reached out to "Professional Electronics" who did a very poor job securing the box and although they accepted this incident had happened, they offered no recourse. Having verified FOR A FACT by Techincs that the turntable was indeed out of spec since the day of purchase AND having incurred the additional damage when shipped back to me I reached out to Technics USA (yes, that email contact that repsonded the 3rd time around) and requested either a REPLACEMENT or a REFUND. They responded in a general and vague fashion rehashing the findings and avoiding responding directly to my request for repalcement or refund.

At that point, I replied that this is unacceptable and that I would like to file a report to the mother organization in Japan since the US branch was clearly incompetent to facilitate even the most rudimentary of functions. For that matter I asked for the contact info for the entity to report my complaint to. I never got a response. And I challenge anyone here to try and find a "Contact Info" for Technics Japan. It simply does not exist and any effort redirects you back to the US Technics site where all this begun in the first place.

In closing I want you to contrast this with a previous experience I had with REGA. Back in 2014 I bought from an authorized REGA dealer in New York City a brand new RP6. I am mentioning "brand new" because many places sell their showroom models for a lower price. When I brought it home and set it up, immediately it was clear that there was something wrong with the platter/sub-platter combo and there was significant wobble. I sent video to the dealer and within a day I had a new table without any of the issues. So this was an example of impecabble services rendered both by the NYC Rega dealer and Rega itself which accepted the error and immediately provided a replacement. They did not try to hide the fact, they did not obfuscate their website so as to hide the fact that their new tables have QC issues and their tech-support is virtually non-existent. And they definitely made good on the damages I had incurred.

On the other hand Technics is a let down of a company. I have been dissatisfied with the quality of their product that I happened to purchase. When I needed tech support it was non existent and incompetent to the point of not knowing their own network of repair shops. Technics and their processes left me with a turntable which I paid for full price only to have it "gutted" and then damaged on shipment and which was out-of-spec since the day I bought it. On top of that no one is responsible, no one has come out publicly to tell me and others like me that the DOT WOBBLE is acceptable or the platter deviations are acceptable.

One final remark to those who have commented here and on other forums and YouTube and to my and other people's postings and videos of the same issue. You claim that the platter/bearing deviations do not matter and that the dot wobble is cosmetic. It's like saying "don't worry that your new car's fender is bent, it is cosmetic, the car drives just fine". But I am ready to accept your excuses on behalf of Technics. IF Technics comes out and admits to the fact in public. Until then I know I fell for the marketing gimicks of a company that does not even have decent tech support or customer care and perceives its customers as cash cows to be milked. And to close this, as far as I am concerned, and all this is just my personal opinion, I cannot justify the $1750 price tag and especially the $2200 for the GR2. If I could return the table and Technics made is so that I can't, I would have gone for one of the $600 tables out there, if I was looking for a DJ table because that is exactly what I got, a DJ turntable not an audiophile one.

the strobo was probably useless and gadget...
which runs well, it measures well...
verified speed...,
you hide the LED and you're done...
;-)

 

[dlaloum]

What's the difference between a dj turntable and an audiophile turntable? The existence of pitch?

That device increase wow & flutter or the noise in the turntable?

I simply try to understand the logic

All the DJ turntables from when DJ-ing started out, were "audiophile" turntables including the original SL1200mk2

DJ's found the features that they needed, and purchased TT's that had those features (exchangeable headshells, plinth mount rather than sprung mount, pitch adjustment, direct drive, robust mechanicals that can take a beating being carried around in the back of a truck to gigs)

Later, manufacturers started making "cheapie" DJ tables, by cutting back on aspects of the performance that were audiophile oriented and which DJ's didn't care about....

So W&F became a relative irrelevancy.... precise bearings with minimised friction/resistance, and anti skating - were removed as unnecessary (and expensive) - typically the "pure" DJ tables sold for less than half the price of the SL1200mk2.

If you look at the disco scene of the 1970's, there are pictures of the Revox Linear tracking turntables being used to DJ.... but DJ at the time, meant putting on records for dancing... not using them as musical instruments (for which the Linatrack arms were of no use!).... so what was meant by DJ-ing changed... and what was needed for DJ-ing did too.... dedicated DJ TT's started being a thing in the 1990's...

 

[mike70]

All the DJ turntables from when DJ-ing started out, were "audiophile" turntables including the original SL1200mk2

DJ's found the features that they needed, and purchased TT's that had those features (exchangeable headshells, plinth mount rather than sprung mount, pitch adjustment, direct drive, robust mechanicals that can take a beating being carried around in the back of a truck to gigs)

Later, manufacturers started making "cheapie" DJ tables, by cutting back on aspects of the performance that were audiophile oriented and which DJ's didn't care about....

So W&F became a relative irrelevancy.... precise bearings with minimised friction/resistance, and anti skating - were removed as unnecessary (and expensive) - typically the "pure" DJ tables sold for less than half the price of the SL1200mk2.

If you look at the disco scene of the 1970's, there are pictures of the Revox Linear tracking turntables being used to DJ.... but DJ at the time, meant putting on records for dancing... not using them as musical instruments (for which the Linatrack arms were of no use!).... so what was meant by DJ-ing changed... and what was needed for DJ-ing did too.... dedicated DJ TT's started being a thing in the 1990's...

I agree with everything you said ... I had a MK2 in the 80s and that was a sound machine, terrific turntable even against the fierce british marketing with the belt drive, cogging blah blah. I never listened to that cogging in the mk2 and I really listened a faster piano in a Rega p3.

I'd like to see a digitalized track with the same cartridge/preamp between any "audiophile" turntable against the new 1200s, like even the acid M Fremer had to recognize ... the 1200s it isn't a toy and a "dj turntable" neither.

 

[EJ3]

This is exactly the route that t/ts should have gone. I remember some years ago there were small specialist makers that were using this technology. There was huge resistance from USA/UK manufacturers with more than a little racism and jealousy in the mix. D/Ds were viciously attacked in western audio mags. The only people who resisted this were the Germans who saw and welcomed the scientific approach by Japanese engineers. I'm surprised that it was only $US 500.

I have 2 Kenwood KD series decks which I have to workout what component has gone o/c. The best of the Japanese d/ds had incredible bearing systems, not the agricultural cup and ball systems in idler/belt drive decks. On the Kenwood KD/KP series,change the Slick 50 oil every 2 years and they will go on for ever. I would really like to find one of these linear trackers. The thought of having to buy a current production quality d/d if I can't get one of the Kenwood's working really hacks me off and will cost a small fortune.

I have never seen "racism" in this arena. But there is definitely are "not invented here" "that's not the way we do it here" syndrome's.
Very normal companies do that to try to protect their market share. Not racist at all.

 

[Golf]

But then the company pulled a bait and switch and transferred manufacturing to Malaysia

To me, that would have been reason enough to simply not buying that respective model. Any model from any Japanese company with a price tag well above 1000 Euros that is not manufactured in Japan is out of the question for me.

Very »good« example for this is the Denon DP-3000NE.

 

[Down South]

To me, that would have been reason enough to simply not buying that respective model. Any model from any Japanese company with a price tag well above 1000 Euros that is not manufactured in Japan is out of the question for me.

Very »good« example for this is the Denon DP-3000NE.

I bought a Marantz CD6007 made in Vietnam - works perfectly. Most speakers now are made in China, whatever the brand. The Turks are making well engineered products. Had a new immersion heater fitted, bad final inspection, didn't pick up faults, had to be replaced - made in France. There are few audio products made in the UK, bad reputation for reliability. Boeing and it's suppliers found by inspectors to be using bad practices, hence faulty parts.

 

[Golf]

I bought a Marantz CD6007 made in Vietnam - works perfectly.

Congratulations!

Did you notice my »price tag well above 1000 Euros« specification by the way?

 

[DSJR]

The Technics top level decks in the 70's were very good indeed 'on the bench' and they weren't alone. @DVDdoug suggested that the SL1200mk2 was a 'DJ' deck. It was certainly taken up by the DJ fraternity which is what kept it going for so long, but it was originally a domestic model, the latest in a line of models (from memory, 1200, 1500, 1800, 1500mk2, 1550 [which only lasted barely a season here]) and then, after we here had gone over to Thorens, Rega and Linn and similar, the 1200mk2 which I suspect we'd only have had access to had we taken all the Technics line (no cherry picking in these large brands). It certainly all but disappeared from domestic view here until Ken Kessler wrote an article about it, having been supplied with a gold one (less then £600 in the 90's) and been surprised by how good it was. The mains transformer is also directly under the platter which could induce hum in some low output MC pickups 9arguably no worse than a Rega here?

Matsushita made an OEM direct driven motor which was awful for linear or 'dynamic wow' which could be clearly audible with some decks and 2g tracking cartridges. Worst of all I ever heard was the Technics SL2000 lower cost deck, which was so bad as to be unlistenable. Fine for the then still fashionably 1g trackers though but the arms often used in decks with this motor weren't right for such fragile pickups.

Timestep in the UK had some articles showing the slightly 'rough' power supply in the SL1200mk2 family as well as

One thing that doesn't seem to be mentioned here but which was a HUGELY important thing in our bassy European room constructions (and on which Linn preyed vociferously) is the plinth structure and basic isolation in these decks, especially as the lid when raised acted as a sound-board making it worse. Mid-bass colouration was rife adding a thickened tone and the detachable headshells with a resonance in the lower mids didn't help either. I suppose, selling and setting up/installing Regas for so many decades taught me a few things of how to site these damned solid plinth things. So many 'enthusiasts' around and about mess around with dampers, expensive and lavish cartridges, mats, external supplies and all sorts and yet plonk the effin' thing on a 'sideboard' or other resonant cabinet which defeats all the fancy-foo add-ons

I like the current motor design as it takes over from my Dual/Pabst EDS1000 motor from the early 70's. The bearing thrust pad on my 701 appears to be a glass type material and last I checked it some years back, not a mark on it.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Worst of all I ever heard was the Technics SL2000 lower cost deck, which was so bad as to be unlistenable.

Strange I had mine from 1979 until i sold it in 2020 and never noticed any problems. In fact the speed stability measured better ( 0,05% peak wow) than most other TT i tried , the phone app on. In fact it gave similar results as a present 1200

 

[DSJR]

Strange I had mine from 1979 until i sold it in 2020 and never noticed any problems. In fact the speed stability measured better ( 0,05% peak wow) than most other TT i tried , the phone app on. In fact it gave similar results as a present 1200

Our demo ones in the mid 70's couldn't track an M95ED (arm too massy) and it audibly wow'd (and visually hunted on the strobe too) with the 2g M95-ED or then cheap fave Stanton 500EE. The cheaper SL20 was far better for this. Mind you, we sold loads of the SL1700 auto-return deck (sprung under-tray) and with the then affordable Ultimo (now Dynavector) 20A and 10X it was in a far higher reproduction plane. We sold a good few belt driven Dual 601's (V15IIILM supplied with most) and 701's with AT20SLa or Ortofon M20E Super or m20FL Super.

Some of us noticed general wow with the OEM motor Matsushita supplied and the UK higher quality Monitor Audio and funky looking JBE decks with this motor could also exhibit this audibly as well (slowing under load and speed overshoot on recovery). We never used 'tracking' record cleaners, but those who did basically killed what performance these decks could offer. Later models like the SL-D2 and descendants seemed to have sorted this out well and some were recommended in te fussy (and perhaps blinkered) HiFi Choice tests of the late 70s to early 80's although the UK stars of that show were the SL7 and SL10 mini decks.

 

[anmpr1]

Now, if the strobe and rotational speed were not such an integral part of the design and function of the table I may have not paid so much attention. But when it is central to the design and the effect so pronounced, one cannot just overlook it. I decided to return the table to the Authorized Seller and request a replacement unit. Indeed, the seller, to their credit immediately replaced it with a new unit.

I reread your OP. You did write that you sent the first unit back to the dealer. At that point, if the things you commented on were issues for you, why did you not consider:

1) Discussing with the dealer how you were unhappy with a unit made in Malaysia... and if it was so important to you, why did you accept another deck made in Malaysia? Especially since you indicate that you 'felt' somehow defrauded because it was not manufactured in Japan, where you assumed it should have been assembled.

2) Why did you not discuss the 'wobbly dots' with your dealer? In depth? Did you ask the dealer whether all of the players had the 'wobble'? Looks like you just assumed you had a defective unit, when in fact you had a typical example.

3) When you received the second deck with the same 'problem', why did you not contact your dealer again, either getting a full refund, or simply chunking the idea of buying a Technics. Maybe look for something else?

4) When you received the package from the carrier, did you file a claim with them for the damage?

It seems to me, not actually having your two samples to examine, that you had a two representative and fully functioning decks, but because you didn't think they were built the way you thought they should have been built, you decided to go on a wild goose chase trying to fix something that was never broken in the first place.

You can certainly argue that a two thousand dollar record player should not have 'wobbly' strobe dots. That is a reasonable opinion. But that doesn't change the fact that it appears to be the way they are made, and that is that.

As far as Technics not responding? Just a sad commentary on the way multinationals operate, but unless you buy direct from the manufacturer they have no real obligation to deal with individual consumers. That is what dealers are for. Dealers are supposed to handle consumer interactions. Example: if you buy a car and the A/C doesn't work, you don't send it back to GM to get it fixed.

Your drama with Professional Electronics Repair is pretty funny, in a way. Obviously they had no idea what you were talking about, or how the deck was supposed to work in the first place. So they just said, "Screw it... we'll replace the motor unit and platter and leave it at that."

 

[Baudrillard_J]

I see many people here -and I already predicted that in my prologue- that are taking apart my OP and trying to debate on everything. I will disappoint you all, I will not go down that rabbit hole. This is my experience and this is how I view it and anyone reading it can make their own decision about what to accept or not. I will however address some recurring themes:

1) Regarding the bait and switch comment. Of course no "large corporation" is going to be stupid enough to promise a "Made in Japan" and deliver a "Made in Malaysia". It is enough for their marketing purpose to flood the audio equipment publications with "made in Japan" models and then surreptitiously switch production to Malaysia. There's a good 40 years of history of the decks being made in Japan and the production was transferred almost overnight (figure of speech) without any sort of public notification. Not that the "large corporation" was obliged to inform the public. But then that's the whole issue isn't it?

2) When I purchase ANYTHING that does not appear to function properly even at the cosmetic level I will -and any sane person- question why that is the case. It is my right as a paying consumer and it is the responsibility of the manufacturer to respond. You are free to spend your hard-earned dollars any way you want. In my case Technics failed completely in informing me IF what I perceived as an error in QC was something that is actually acceptable for them. I am still to see any form of formal admission from Technics saying "the dot wobble is not a bug it's a feature". You are telling me that your deck from the80's was like that. And you accepted it. Fine for you, not for me. And apparently for numerous other people who have come online to protest about this.

3) The tech support -by anyone's standard- is abysmal. My experience left me thinking that it was designed so that it hinders communication with tech support not accommodate it. Hearing back after 9 months and 3 separate emails is poor performance by anyone's standards. That they failed to meaningfully point me to either the information I needed to answer my questions or even an Authorized Repairer Center speaks volumes as to the level of disregard for the consumer. That someone would claim that this is acceptable because the decks are great and have been like this since the 80's is beyond the point of debating.

4) Now, I think you should all have paused for a second when I said that the platter and motor where actually replaced. Does that point to an issue or not? Was I right in pursuing this or not? Was this issue present since day one or not? Why should I accept a product that was underperforming since the day I bought it, the delay in determining the cause was not mine, it was the "large corporation's". Thank you, everything else past this point is pure, 100% GASLIGHTING.

I will not be returning to this subject. Thank you all for your responses.

 

[Golf]

The fact that obviously no »official« image of the backside of the Technics SL-1200GR2 has been published should have been a warning sign. Looking for the same of the Technics SL-1200GR (without the »2«) you’ll find some very well – showing a Made in Japan sticker ...

And the blue strobe light should be no surprise to anybody who had a close look to the model’s presentation before buying it.

 

[anmpr1]

I don't think any Technics models are made in Japan anymore. Maybe the ten thousand dollar SP10 and twenty thousand dollar SL-1000. Don't know about them.

Stereophile's review of the four thousand dollar SL-1200 G (November 2022) stated it was made in Malaysia. So it wasn't like it was a big secret. Why would anyone think lesser priced models would be made in Japan?

I think consumers have to presume that anything consumer electronics oriented they buy is going to be sourced from Malaysia, Indonesia, China, Vietnam etc. Unless there is a compelling reason to believe otherwise. In which case the manufacturer will likely use the non-Asian source of origin as a selling point-- for those that care. I mean, no one wants a non USA McIntosh amp, even if it was made in Japan. For that, you'd buy Lux or Accuphase.

Of course there is no intrinsic reason a modern OEM factory anywhere in the world cannot maintain consistent QC. Really, before the upstream OEM stencils on a brand logo and puts it in a box, final quality to the consumer is mostly going to depend upon whatever the downstream receiving company (who is paying the invoice) believes is acceptable for them to sell, without getting too many returns.

 

[EJ3]

1) If the company did not promise you a made in Japan model, how was it 'bait and switch' or otherwise fraud?

2) The 'wobble' is present on all 1200 MkX models, as far as I know. I believe it is because of the casting process. However, at least on the two Mk 2 and Mk 5 models I've owned, this does not affect the 'flatness' of the platter as it spins. You can tell by watching the tonearm on a reasonably flat disc. Many years ago I owned the original 1200, but I don't remember whether that model had the 'wobbly' dots.

3) Welcome to the hassle of trying to deal with a large multinat corporation. They are usually not set up for end to consumer interaction, because the consumer is not their customer. The dealer is their customer. It is the same whether you try to call Sony or Harman et al. Not unique to Panasonic. That is why it is best to always buy from a dealer who will support you. Even if it is mail order. For example, Crutchfield (and probably many others, but that is one I'm familiar with) would have taken the deck back within the evaluation period, no questions asked.

4) That is not Panasonic's fault.

5) Whether you were entitled to a new deck? Does the warranty allow for that? Unless the warranty states that how can you claim it? Again, that is why it is best to go with a dealer with an established return policy. You did state you bought from a dealer... What did they say? I might have missed that part, mostly because your post was long and rather rambling, so I apologize for that if I did. Can you tell us what your dealer said?

I'll address #1) here: The fact that Technics does not say where they make this TT means no promise of anything regarding where it is made.
Of course, they have to know that the omission of that information is sneaky, as (if it where made in Japan) they would likely state that in some manner (perhaps something like 'Proudly MADE in Japan').
The fact that they did not do this puts the onus on you to use due diligence to research where it was made, if that is a concern of yours.
It certainly does not fall into the realm of "bait & switch".
As to the rest, I also fully agree with anmpr1.

 

[anmpr1]

... (if it where made in Japan) they would likely state that in some manner (perhaps something like 'Proudly MADE in Japan').

When I was a kid, electronics from Japan were typically considered 'junk'. If it worked for half a year you were ahead of the game. How things changed. Now, only the few can afford gear actually made in Japan. Maybe some mid-range Yamaha/Marantz/Denon are still made in Japan?

The 'proudly made' thing is a good observation, and it is happening in some other industries. But with a twist. Electric guitars for instance. Gibson (Epiphone) has its own factory in Qingdao, and openly advertises the fact. QC is run by a Gibson US manager, with Chinese operatives. Product spans entry-level to mid-tier (about up to $1500.00). From my experience, instruments coming out of the factory are quite consistent, and at their price point are generally first rate (although some reviewers are choking on higher-end Epiphone prices--I think simply because they've never been in that price range and that has confused them. They need to keep in mind what a comparable USA Gibson sells for in order to provide perspective).

PRS openly states that their Indonesian guitars are made in a 'special' section of the Cor-Tek factory. You can go to YT and watch a factory walk-through.

On the back of the headstock, Squire guitars have imprinted, 'Designed and Backed by Fender, Crafted in Indonesia'. Most of those are, I believe, made by Cor-Tek.

But with audio there's still some push back to Asian (non-Japanese) production. On the other hand, I've never seen anyone really report a QC issue with the new Technics line. I admit I don't follow it that close, though. Other than the strobe dot thing, which has always been there, and has always been commented on, even with the Technics Japanese product line, going back to when they were first introduced. People that are bothered by it are 'listening' with their eyes, and not their ears.

What I don't know is whether Panasonic has their own dedicated factory in Malaysia, or whether an independent OEM builds the decks.

 

[EJ3]

The 'proudly made' thing is a good observation, and it is happening in some other industries. But with a twist. Electric guitars for instance. Gibson (Epiphone) has its own factory in Qingdao, and openly advertises the fact. QC is run by a Gibson US manager, with Chinese operatives. Product spans entry-level to mid-tier (about up to $1500.00). From my experience, instruments coming out of the factory are quite consistent, and at their price point are generally first rate (although some reviewers are choking on higher-end Epiphone prices--I think simply because they've never been in that price range and that has confused them. They need to keep in mind what a comparable USA Gibson sells for in order to provide perspective).

PRS openly states that their Indonesian guitars are made in a 'special' section of the Cor-Tek factory. You can go to YT and watch a factory walk-through.

On the back of the headstock, Squire guitars have imprinted, 'Designed and Backed by Fender, Crafted in Indonesia'. Most of those are, I believe, made by Cor-Tek.

It's different when the company is proud enough of what is being done to go out of the way to proclaim it's quality by highlighting it.
That usually means that the company has likely properly trained the people & put the QA/QC time & learning investment of the people in the factory.
Therefore negating the FACT that many things from that country are low quality because this particular product is fine.
Once that happens enough to become the norm, then the FACT will be that most products from there are OK or better than OK, then the stigma will mostly go away.
Changing the FACT is the important part.
My Chinese wife once said "If it is made in China & it is not made of silk, it's quality is suspect". At the time, that was a fact. It is no longer true about many things.
At the time she said that, I looked at her & said "You're made in China".
She slapped me.
Because she knew that her quality was not suspect and that I knew that.
(I also knew that she was going to slap me before I said that, but I could not resist saying it).