Please help me choose a turntable...

[WilliamO]

To me this is a bit like asking what’s the best knife to bring to a gun fight. You can certainly spend thousands on an expertly honed blade. I love these things. Buy the most beautiful one you can afford that cuts better than others. But at the end of the day it’s a knife. For me, I love vinyl, but I just can’t justify overspending on a turntable. If i want to win a measurement war I‘m looking for something a bit more practical. The Technics offerings are really a work of art though, no doubt about it.

I can definitely appreciate your point of view. Is the gun fight the equivalent of digital music and knife fight, analog? If so, I cannot totally disagree with you. I do believe we approach a point where the ears cannot resolve the resolution lost in digital music due to the ADC, but the turntable is just so cool as a modality and reminds me of youth. I am also of the opinion there may be a certain disdain for digital music because so many mp3s just sucked in low resolution.

 

[Golf]

The Technics offerings are really a work of art though, no doubt about it.

Really? For me, it is nothing less than Technic’s naming scheme regarding turntables which makes me feel upside-down. And it makes me wonder if they are still sane at all, over there in Japan ...

SL-1500C
SL-1200MK7
SL-1200GR2
SL-1200GR
SL-1200G
SL-1000R/SP-10R

 

[WilliamO]

Really? For me, it is nothing less than Technic’s naming scheme regarding turntables which makes me feel upside-down. And it makes me wonder if they are still sane at all, over there in Japan ...

SL-1500C
SL-1200MK7
SL-1200GR2
SL-1200GR
SL-1200G
SL-1000R/SP-10R

That's good; really good. Never caught that. Maybe they improve the closer you get to 1.

 

[Zapper]

But if I were buying a turntable, I'd consider the AT LP120USB. It's direct drive and it comes ready-to-play with a cartridge, a built-in phono preamp, and USB in case you want to digitize.

Yeah me too - I've got the version with bluetooth. But this guy is looking at $10k turntables. A $10k turntable is more than a means to spin records - it's a statement.

The AT-LP120USB works ok, but it's a cheap plastic thing that thumps when you touch it. It makes a statement too, but not the one our well-heeled friend is looking to make!

 

[Count Arthur]

How about?:

THORENS® TD 124 DD

The official Thorens® website: Turntables, Electronic, Accessories

www.thorens.com

 

[mike70]

That is extremely impressive. Do you think the SL1000R is difficult to justify against the 1200G?

Well I have some vintage Technics and a brand new mk7.

Can I say mi honest opinion? ... I don't think the GR sounds better than the mk7
I have my mk7 with AT vm540ml cartridge and sounds fabulous, many LPs sounds really better than my digital system (raspberry pi / Schiit modius / ripped CDs with EAC)

I also have AT mc ptg33II and that sounds fabulous too.

The mk7 sells for 1k USD ... best bang for the bucks. The GR have some better look and feel at some aspects, but I think nothing that really improves the sound.

That's my very honest opinion.

 

[WilliamO]

Well I have some vintage Technics and a brand new mk7.

Can I say mi honest opinion? ... I don't think the GR sounds better than the mk7
I have my mk7 with AT vm540ml cartridge and sounds fabulous, many LPs sounds really better than my digital system (raspberry pi / Schiit modius / ripped CDs with EAC)

I also have AT mc ptg33II and that sounds fabulous too.

The mk7 sells for 1k USD ... best bang for the bucks. The GR have some better look and feel at some aspects, but I think nothing that really improves the sound.

That's my very honest opinion.

I do have a Reloop MK7000 Gold brand new in package - never used it. Wonder if it's any good with a cartridge?

 

[mike70]

I do have a Reloop MK7000 Gold brand new in package - never used it. Wonder if it's any good with a cartridge?

That Reloop comes from OEM platforms ... I don't think motor, tonearm, platter, speed control, ... are in the same league than Technics.

Surely it plays records decently, but I bet for Technics

 

[anmpr1]

Maybe they improve the closer you get to 1.

That was actually pretty much it. Historically. The original DD was the armless 10. Next was the armless but with an integral base 110 (1100 with arm), and soon after that the 120 (1200 with arm). So you went from 10 to 11 to 12 in order of expense.

With that in mind, Julian Hirsch said that their example of the SL-1100 measured a bit better in the rumble department than the original SP-10.

 

[Balle Clorin]

What are the thoughts on the Technics SL1000R? This would more than likely constitute a purchase and check out from this place with it in my system. Any idea how well this piece will hold value? Has anyone seen any for resale?

Yamaha GT5000?

The aesthetics of my equipment is important to me. I like to look at it, touch it, interact with it. I enjoy selecting music from the push buttons and knob rotations on the music streamer. The iPad and Roon is actually secondary.

I measured the Yamaha GT5000, I would not buy it. It is like most turntables today, quite mediocre, nothing particularly good about it. The 1000R is in its own league.
I have a recording of the Technics 1000R with a top cartridge, sounds good but not spectacular it is still the vinyl medium that sets the limits.

 

[Ze Frog]

1. Musical Fidelity M8xTT
2. McIntosh MT5
3. McIntosh MT10
4. Technics SL-1200G

This will most likely pair with a McIntosh C12000. I presently have (2) McIntosh MC275VI, McIntosh D150, McIntosh MCT450, Cambridge Audio CXNv2 and NHT T5 speakers. I am considering Focal Diablo Utopia Color Evo speakers. I currently have a Music Hall Classic turntable routed through a Marantz Cinema 70s AVR.

The Technics everyday of the week in my opinion.

 

[Balle Clorin]

How about?:

View attachment 354633
View attachment 354634

THORENS® TD 124 DD

The official Thorens® website: Turntables, Electronic, Accessories

www.thorens.com

No, it is horrible check the Hifinews Lab report. And I got the same bad results. It should be pulled from the market and improved for a mk2 version

It must seem like I disapprove of any turntable? But Technics are good just check that the platter run out and dots are good= not moving in any directions some owners has complained on the 1200 in another thread here. .
Reed are also good, but how well can a wooden arm be?
And SME is good of course

 

[Count Arthur]

No, it is horrible check the Hifinews Lab report. And I got the same bad results. It should be pulled from the market and improved for a mk2 version

It must seem like I disapprove of any turntable? But Technics are good just check that the platter run out and dots are good= not moving in any directions some owners has complained on the 1200 in another thread here. .
Reed are also good, but how well can a wooden arm be?
And SME is good of course

I just like how it looks.

How it performs is irrelevant - I don't have any vinyl.

 

[LTig]

I think if one wants a really good TT go either Technics for DD or Linn (LP12) for belt drive. Those two are the makers with the longest history and experience.

 

[mike70]

The dots in the 1200s are uniquely to check for the speed (I have some vintage and actual Technics and I never, ever see any trouble with the speed).
Even the venerable Mk2 had "misaligned dots".

So, that issue is absolutely esthetic (it's not a problem in the platter) and nothing to worry about it ... I don't think at 2 or 3 meters away you'll see the dots

 

[ban25]

I just like how it looks.

How it performs is irrelevant - I don't have any vinyl.

Word on the street is Hanpin (China) is the OEM and Denon has just slapped their name on it (and price tag). It certainly looks like a Hanpin table.

 

[ban25]

All very good points. Thank you for pointing that out. I was actually well aware of the performance of the direct drive Technics and was committed to purchase, but, in my opinion the other tables are so nice to look at.

This may be a dumb question, but are the differences in measurements audible?

Very audible, in my experience. I have a 1200MK7 and a Pro-Ject belt drive. Speed stability on the Pro-Ject is considerably worse and I noticed changes in pitch, particularly on sustained notes in classical and jazz. It was maddening, and I spent quite a bit of time trying to isolate the table better before just relegating it to collecting dust. The Technics 1200MK7 measures 10x better and indeed, there is no audible variances in pitch or W+F.

 

[anmpr1]

Word on the street is Hanpin (China) is the OEM and Denon has just slapped their name on it (and price tag). It certainly looks like a Hanpin table.

Probably. Albeit (I'm just guessing) at a higher level than your typical popular price point Hanpin product. At least from the looks.

One thing to consider: back in the heyday of Japanese record players, I strongly suspect that there was an OEM producing decks for Sony, Denon, and JVC. Why do I say that? Because many of their respective models had both the inside-the-platter magnetic tape head tachometer servo, along with the interesting electro-mechanical arm damping/tracking force adjustments. I find it almost beyond belief that three different companies independently developed and put into manufacture essentially identical tech.

So, just because something is produced OEM doesn't necessarily mean it is less than worthy of consideration. That said, it would totally surprise me if the new Denon, as good as it might be, is as sophisticated as anything mid level to top tier that Denon was selling forty to fifty years ago.

 

[mike70]

Very audible, in my experience. I have a 1200MK7 and a Pro-Ject belt drive. Speed stability on the Pro-Ject is considerably worse and I noticed changes in pitch, particularly on sustained notes in classical and jazz. It was maddening, and I spent quite a bit of time trying to isolate the table better before just relegating it to collecting dust. The Technics 1200MK7 measures 10x better and indeed, there is no audible variances in pitch or W+F.

That's what happened to me with a Rega p3... sustained piano notes sounding with irregularities.
Technics was spot on in the same record.

(Also ... if you see the motor under the plinth ... OMG ... is like a microwave oven motor)

 

[Balle Clorin]

I just like how it looks.

How it performs is irrelevant - I don't have any vinyl.

Good for you…