Please help me choose a turntable...

[Robin L]

I know what you're getting at @Robin L, but would add that:
The potential issue with the DDs of yore can be irreplaceable (in the sense of NLA) ICs.
Most of the wear-outtable stuff is common to all types of record players (e.g., arm and platter bearings, suspension components, if applicable), anyway.

Yes, there were some esoteric "solutions" to bearings... and, of course:
all generalizations are false -- including this one.

I'm just speaking from personal experience. I also had a couple of downmarket Technics direct drive turntables which also worked fine. Whereas the PE 'tables using rim-drive had problems from the moment I got them, and the Sansui belt drive 'table ran audibly fast. The Strathclyde 'table, belt drive, was a lovely machine but over more than a decade the belt stretched out to the point where it was no longer useful and couldn't be replaced. I'm not speaking in generalizations, I'm speaking of specific experiences.

 

[mike70]

but assembled in China nevertheless, I see sort of a warning sign

Do you have an iPhone?

 

[Robin L]

. . . assembled in China nevertheless, I see sort of a warning sign ...

People used to say the same about Japanese products, a long time ago. China has been gaining on the world as regards technological skill in manufacture. Consider some of Topping's products. The L30 headphone amp/preamp still is the reigning king of both noise and distortion, and goes for about $150. It's still one of my happiest purchases.

 

[Golf]

Do you have an iPhone?

I prefer to keep any conversation well within the forum.

 

[Cougar80]

The potential issue with the DDs of yore can be irreplaceable (in the sense of NLA) ICs.

Yep, that’s my understanding with my Denon. If the IC goes it’s toast, but recapping is good insurance.

I really don’t know what I’d get if it died. I’m currently enjoying hi-res streaming more, but there are times I love the ritual of putting on a record. One thing that bugs me about modern TTs is the lack of an auto-stop feature. There aren’t a lot of options in the “audiophile-grade” realm that have it.

 

[mike70]

I prefer to keep any conversation well within the forum.

What I'm asking is totally on topic for what you said ... but reading between the lines I understand you know the answer

Today, thinking that China basically means low quality is a great nonsense. Check for Apple, Mercedes, BMW, Audi, ... almost every big brand.

 

[mike70]

Yep, that’s my understanding with my Denon. If the IC goes it’s toast, but recapping is good insurance.

I really don’t know what I’d get if it died. I’m currently enjoying hi-res streaming more, but there are times I love the ritual of putting on a record. One thing that bugs me about modern TTs is the lack of an auto-stop feature. There aren’t a lot of options in the “audiophile-grade” realm that have it.

The auto return mechanism adds many moving parts to the tonearm ... not the best.
Auto lift gadgets is preferred, you can buy one separately or some models have that feature, like the Technics 1500c.

 

[Golf]

Today, thinking that China basically means low quality is a great nonsense.

Which is why I don’t do so.

But I do believe that for instance the Denon folks have solid reason for still assembling most of their top gear in Japan.

 

[Cougar80]

The auto return mechanism adds many moving parts to the tonearm ... not the best.
Auto lift gadgets is preferred, you can buy one separately or some models have that feature, like the Technics 1500c.

Yep my vintage Denon only has auto lift and stops the motor. I have no desire for full automatic.

Interesting the 1500c only auto lifts. Seems like if the TT senses the end of a record and has a lifting mechanism built in it would be trivial to send a stop signal to the motor.

 

[mike70]

Which is why I don’t do so.

But I do believe that for instance the Denon folks have solid reason for still assembling most of their top gear in Japan.

... and I believe it can be more profitable for a very small batch of products (as an example) and not because in China isn't possible to achieve the same quality.

 

[Zapper]

some models have that feature, like the Technics 1500c.

A few others with auto lift and/or shutoff:
Dual CS 618Q
Music Hall Stealth
Thorens TD 1601

 

[Vortex]

How about the Roksan Radius 7 ?

 

[al2002]

1. Musical Fidelity M8xTT
2. McIntosh MT5
3. McIntosh MT10
4. Technics SL-1200G

This will most likely pair with a McIntosh C12000. I presently have (2) McIntosh MC275VI, McIntosh D150, McIntosh MCT450, Cambridge Audio CXNv2 and NHT T5 speakers. I am considering Focal Diablo Utopia Color Evo speakers. I currently have a Music Hall Classic turntable routed through a Marantz Cinema 70s AVR.

Technics. Even the 1200 GR would be fine.

 

[mike70]

Technics. Even the 1200 GR would be fine.

I'd like to check the mk7 and the GR in a blind test with the same record/headshell/cartridge/preamp ... maybe with digitalized files and a ABX plugin.

I bet many will be surprised

 

[Robin L]

I'd like to check the mk7 and the GR in a blind test with the same record/headshell/cartridge/preamp ... maybe with digitalized files and a ABX plugin.

I bet many will be surprised

I'd say that once reaches a certain level of performance in LP playback, pushing that envelope will not result in further improvement sonically.

 

[mike70]

I'd say that once reaches a certain level of performance in LP playback, pushing that envelope will not result in further improvement sonically.

i totally agree, i think you can improve materials, design, reliability, blah blah ... but "real sound differences"? no

 

[Robin L]

i totally agree, i think you can improve materials, design, reliability, blah blah ... but "real sound differences"? no

The limiting factor is the discs themselves. The only functional solution to that problem was the CD and its various digital offspring. No off-center wow. No peak-warp wow. No motor/belt/idler wheel induced flutter. No surface noise. No record wear. No inner groove distortion. All things being equal, the most perfect LP will always be less perfect than the most perfect CD.

 

[Vortex]

.. and the most perfect CD will never outperform the most perfect lossless PCM file it is made from.
FLAC has no moving parts for playing. No skipping due to heavy shake. Can be sent over any distance and copied in unlimited amounts, bit-perfectly 100% identical to the very original file.

The first relief was CD, yes.

The second was FLAC (after all that crazy-messy lossy codecs).
Nowadays with today's storage price/GB ratios, a no brainer.. and it's the last thing we own. (Streaming = you own nothing and you will be happy).

 

[mike70]

The limiting factor is the discs themselves. The only functional solution to that problem was the CD and its various digital offspring. No off-center wow. No peak-warp wow. No motor/belt/idler wheel induced flutter. No surface noise. No record wear. No inner groove distortion. All things being equal, the most perfect LP will always be less perfect than the most perfect CD.

Really? I can say to you that I have many (many) vinyl with much better sound than the CD.

You're forgetting about bad digital masters and compression to sound good on cell phones with cheap earphones. That's much much more important than the format itself.

But, if you prefer to stay with theoretical numbers ... well, then I agree with you.

 

[Robin L]

Really? I can say to you that I have many (many) vinyl with much better sound than the CD.

You're forgetting about bad digital masters and compression to sound good on cell phones with cheap earphones. That's much much more important than the format itself.

But, if you prefer to stay with theoretical numbers ... well, then I agree with you.

Like I already said, most perfect vs. most perfect.