System advice “warm hifi”

[Jasperamsterdam]

An amplifier shouldn't (and usually doesn't) affect the "sound quality" (except for tone controls or other EQ).

Look for output power (generally to match your speakers, depending on how loud you want to go).

There is always SOME noise from any active analog circuit (hum, hiss, or whine in the background). The noise specs aren't that useful because there are different measurement methods, except of course the measurements here are comparable. Whether the noise is audible or not also depends on the sensitivity of your speakers (or headphones), how close you are to the speakers, and the acoustic noise in the room.

And of course, "features" with an integrated amp.

Class-A is just "dumb" and energy inefficient. It's not class-A because it's better, it's class-A because it was the way the 1st amplifiers were made. And in the old days it was easier & cheaper because class-A/B required an additional tube, transistor, or MOSFET. Now, the cost of a MOSFET is insignificant and Class-A it's the most expensive (per Watt). Class-D is a LOT more complex and it requires integrated circuits (at least to make it economical). Class-D is very energy efficient, and with less energy wasted as heat inside the amplifier, more power can go to the speakers. With economical integrated circuits, Class-D seems to be becoming the standard.

On the other hand, every speaker sounds different and if possible you should listen before you buy, or maybe just go to an audio/video store listen to a variety of different speakers to get an idea of what you like. (I'm an old-school big-speaker guy... There's more to speaker design than size, but physics does come into play and "a kitten can't roar like a lion".)

A subwoofer should have a crossover to send only the lows to the bass and to block the lows from your main speakers. That's built-into all audio video receivers, but it's rare on integrated amps. Almost all subs have a low-pass filter and some active subs have a crossover built-in. You connect the preamp-output to the subwoofer, and then the plug the sub's crossover outputs to your power amp input. (Some integrated amps have a way to "insert" for an crossover or equalizer.)

Do you already have the turntable and/or records? If not, I'd advise against this outdated, inferior, technology.


Sweet & Warm don't have real meanings... They are just common "audiophile nonsense" along with thousands of other meaningless audiophile words, and they can mean whatever you want them to mean, or however they make you "feel". This is Audio Science Review. See Audiophoolery for the real characteristics of sound quality.

A good tube amp won't sound any different than another amp... Its job is to amplify... But if a tube amp does have a particular "color" or "sound", it will be different from every other tube amp and you'll need to choose one you like.

Haha! I understand your point of view and maybe this is one big romantic mistake before I end up with a flawless Hypex amp buying from graphs!

I understand the discussion coming from photography background on the value of film va digital, ratio vs romantics.

The turntable i already have inherited from my father along with some great records my parents use to play when young

 

[Jasperamsterdam]

Well well well. I used to have a Musical Fidelity A1 many years ago. With the right music and the right speakers it was an absolutely glorious sounding amp. It didn't have much power and couldn't be used with inefficient speaker, but I recall listing through some SD Acoustics SD1 which had high efficiency (and other great attributes) and it was superb without qualifications. However it only really shone with easy going melodic music, and as soon as you needed some get up and go and aggression, it fell flat on it's face. It's the sort of amp that a valve lover would like.

The power distortion curves look dreadful, but that's not how it sounded. Anyone who thinks all amps sound the same should be made to listen one of these - it's an education point, and demands that you question the value of measurements.

I have very fond memories of that amplifier. Sade never sounded better, but ZZ Top never sounded worse. It's certainly a warm amp.

Thank you for sharing your experience, I am not big on Rock but i do not listen Norah Jones only, so I will take this in to account

 

[Jasperamsterdam]

How about some active speakers? Saves money on the amp. What’s your budget for all of it? Does that include the turntable? Check out KH 80 DSP, KH 120 II, or even KH 150 if that still fits your size requirements. The Genelec lineup has rear ports, so need a few inches of space, otherwise look at the 8x30 series.

Budget is around €4000 for amp, speakers and streamer / dac.

I am in Europe so some things are cheaper here and some more expensive. For instance I was also debating the Rogue Audio Sphinx and the Unison Research Simply Italy amps , but the Rogue is very expensive here (2600€) the Italy tube amp is quite affordable at 2000€

 

[Count Arthur]

Have you read the accompanying review? Or is it not done since it is just words and not science . Because i read that and any other review I could find as very positive

I think the issue with that speaker is that it's a tiny ~10cm full range driver. It may sound pleasant with some material, but it's unlikely to be a particularly versatile speaker and will not be able to play very loud.

Take a look at this list: https://www.spinorama.org/index.html?sort=score&reverse=false

This is sorted from best to worst, based on tonality. A high tonality score means that the speaker should sound neutral and uncoloured, it should sound "right". People (oddballs) may have a preference for speakers that aren't neutral, but they are likely to work well with some types of music, but not others. If you start neutral, you can adjust to taste with tone controls, or equalisation, if you wish, dial in some extra bass, reduce the treble, that sort of thing.

 

[Ron Texas]

For a warmish sound turn up the heat. If that's not enough visit Texas in the summer.

 

[JustJones]

AUDIOPHONICS DA-S250NC Class D Integrated Amplifier NCore NC252MP DAC ES9038Q2M Bluetooth 2x250W 4 Ohm 32bit 768kHz DSD256 - Audiophonics

Versatile and powerful, we offer you with DA-S250NC a real integrated amplifier to which you can add speakers to enjoy your music in the best possible way...

www.audiophonics.fr

WiiM Pro and Plus | Versatile Audiophile Streaming: Unleash the Brilliance

Unveil the brilliance of your music with WiiM Pro and Plus. Embrace versatile audiophile streaming that redefines your listening experience with uncompromising quality

www.wiimhome.com

LINTON Heritage - WHARFEDALE

www.wharfedale.co.uk

 

[Frank2]

Have you read the accompanying review? Or is it not done since it is just words and not science . Because i read that and any other review I could find as very positive

With these reviews you have to carefully read between the lines since any crticism is always heavily sugar coated with at least three layers of sugar.

"To put things plainly, the scale and „weight” of the presentation were not as big."
"I hope it is clear by now that OGY won’t bring you to your knees with the deepest, most powerful bass, they won’t cause walls in your room to crack, and they won’t be the first choice for a dance party. They also won’t bother bats living nearby with ultrasounds. Yes, it also means that they can’t offer absolute fidelity to every recording"

If you look at the frequency response graph, you'll notice that their mean SPL in the high frequencies is almost 10 dB (!) higher than in the low frequencies. They will sound bright, not warm. And the almost 10 dB peak at 7 kHz will shout louder than anything above that frequency. Hence the lack of 'scale' and high frequency extension mentioned by the reviewer. Sure, you can get used to the sound but it will never sound natural. Or, as the reviewer puts it, it will not be reproduced with 'absolute fidelity'.

 

[GXAlan]

Budget is around €4000 for amp, speakers and streamer / dac.

I am in Europe so some things are cheaper here and some more expensive. For instance I was also debating the Rogue Audio Sphinx and the Unison Research Simply Italy amps , but the Rogue is very expensive here (2600€) the Italy tube amp is quite affordable at 2000€

That’s a hefty budget and I previously had a Marantz PM-10/SA-10/WiiM Pro combo with the JBL XPL90. I switched to Meyer Sound Amie’s with a CX-A5100/Sony UBP-X800M2.

I echo the recommendations here to go for a Neuman KH150. I think you should get a Schiit Freya which is transparent in passive mode and allows you to sweeten the sound with a tube mode. You can get the WiiM Pro Plus and then you’ll be in good shape. Can run digital to KH420 vs. analog through solid state preamp or analog through tube preamp if you want the warmth.

You should spend the most on speakers, not the amp nor source.

I think the issue with that speaker is that it's a tiny ~10cm full range driver. It may sound pleasant with some material, but it's unlikely to be a particularly versatile speaker and will not be able to play very loud.

The loudest 4” speaker I know of is the Meyer Sound MM4XP which is plenty loud but is restricted to 120 Hz to 18 kHz. 113 dB at 1m.

Vocals and guitars actually sound great. There isn’t a lot of content below 120 Hz for most voices and guitars. The high frequency roll off is beyond the hearing of many, and for me, just results in a “warmer” sound.

But the Meyer Sound requires a full active design to sound good and you pay a very high price premium for size and SPL capability.

 

[GaryY]

Have you read the accompanying review? Or is it not done since it is just words and not science . Because i read that and any other review I could find as very positive

I understand why you think so because I was also in the same boat before reading reviews in this site to buy new systems. However, later I realized praises for lots of hifi product in youtube or magazine are just to sell them. I just hope you could get the same help here as I could.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

With these reviews you have to carefully read between the lines since any crticism is always heavily sugar coated with at least three layers of sugar.

"To put things plainly, the scale and „weight” of the presentation were not as big."
"I hope it is clear by now that OGY won’t bring you to your knees with the deepest, most powerful bass, they won’t cause walls in your room to crack, and they won’t be the first choice for a dance party. They also won’t bother bats living nearby with ultrasounds. Yes, it also means that they can’t offer absolute fidelity to every recording"

If you look at the frequency response graph, you'll notice that their mean SPL in the high frequencies is almost 10 dB (!) higher than in the low frequencies. They will sound bright, not warm. And the almost 10 dB peak at 7 kHz will shout louder than anything above that frequency. Hence the lack of 'scale' and high frequency extension mentioned by the reviewer. Sure, you can get used to the sound but it will never sound natural. Or, as the reviewer puts it, it will not be reproduced with 'absolute fidelity'.

…. Plus full range drivers often distort at lower frequencies and higher levels and some of that might even spill over to mid ones too … the manufacturer doesn’t even show those. … see also the pathetic GR Research attempt. There is a reason why people built multiway speakers.


At OP:
@sweetchaos has a speaker list. Often you find among the passives the KEFs and Wharfadales ranking good. And on the actives the Neumanns and Genelec.

And yes Amps are not EQs. Forget about the amp sounding warm nonesense. Speaker and Room affect sound orders of magnitude more than any modern electronics. If you want to sound it warm, then use an EQ eg. add a bit lows or roll off the highs. But buy an anecoically flat speaker with ideally a smooth directivity as a foundation. Listen at home and forget about reviews = ads or online „opinions“ on how something sounds.

 

[Jasperamsterdam]

With these reviews you have to carefully read between the lines since any crticism is always heavily sugar coated with at least three layers of sugar.

"To put things plainly, the scale and „weight” of the presentation were not as big."
"I hope it is clear by now that OGY won’t bring you to your knees with the deepest, most powerful bass, they won’t cause walls in your room to crack, and they won’t be the first choice for a dance party. They also won’t bother bats living nearby with ultrasounds. Yes, it also means that they can’t offer absolute fidelity to every recording"

If you look at the frequency response graph, you'll notice that their mean SPL in the high frequencies is almost 10 dB (!) higher than in the low frequencies. They will sound bright, not warm. And the almost 10 dB peak at 7 kHz will shout louder than anything above that frequency. Hence the lack of 'scale' and high frequency extension mentioned by the reviewer. Sure, you can get used to the sound but it will never sound natural. Or, as the reviewer puts it, it will not be reproduced with 'absolute fidelity'.

I understand the general commercial aspect of these reviews, and surely picked out these weaknesses that where addressed in the review. Which to be honest speak in favor of the review i guess.
I read and watched a lot of other reviews and most had pluses and minuses. I guess the short list I came up with was based on the description of these qualifications.

 

[Rhamnetin]

This one sucks big time. A real piece of garbage:
View attachment 347563

MUSICAL FIDELITY A1

Gdy w maju pojawiły się pierwsze informacje o tym, że Musical Fidelity wprowadza do oferty wzmacniacz A1, wcale nie pomyślałem, że to spóźniony ...

audio.com.pl

Testergebnisse

www.stereo.de

Oof, this for more than the price of Hypex's flagship...

 

[MattHooper]

Sweet & Warm don't have real meanings... They are just common "audiophile nonsense" along with thousands of other meaningless audiophile words, and they can mean whatever you want them to mean, or however they make you "feel".

Sometimes I think this place is a watering hole for folks who just aren't comfortable with descriptive language. Like "I don't care about such words, and if I don't know what the word means then it must have no meaning! Only measurements have REAL meaning!"

But...We've been here before...

 

[Frank2]

I understand the general commercial aspect of these reviews, and surely picked out these weaknesses that where addressed in the review. Which to be honest speak in favor of the review i guess.
I read and watched a lot of other reviews and most had pluses and minuses. I guess the short list I came up with was based on the description of these qualifications.

I strongly recommend to go out and listen for yourself. I've had many occasions where the impression I got from reviews was completely different from my own listening experience. Even a speaker that measures well can disappoint you personally, but a speaker that measures badly will almost always disappoint. In that sense measurements can help to create a viable shortlist. But give them a listen before you buy, or make sure you can return them.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

I strongly recommend to go out and listen for yourself. I've had many occasions where the impression I got from reviews was completely different from my own listening experience. Even a speaker that measures well can disappoint you personally, but a speaker that measures badly will almost always disappoint. In that sense measurements can help to create a viable shortlist. But give them a listen before you buy, or make sure you can return them.

Ideally I wouldn’t even listen at showrooms. Totally different accoustics than at home, especially when considering by how much a room (up to 20dB!!! ) a room can affect sound. Plus you can never listen level matched. And worst you have to listen to the dealer‘s nonsense ….

Either buy speakers with a good return policy or buy such expensive speakers that the dealer brings them to you for a few days to listen.

 

[Punchrulle]

That’s a hefty budget and I previously had a Marantz PM-10/SA-10/WiiM Pro combo with the JBL XPL90. I switched to Meyer Sound Amie’s with a CX-A5100/Sony UBP-X800M2.

I echo the recommendations here to go for a Neuman KH150. I think you should get a Schiit Freya which is transparent in passive mode and allows you to sweeten the sound with a tube mode. You can get the WiiM Pro Plus and then you’ll be in good shape. Can run digital to KH420 vs. analog through solid state preamp or analog through tube preamp if you want the warmth.

You should spend the most on speakers, not the amp nor source.



The loudest 4” speaker I know of is the Meyer Sound MM4XP which is plenty loud but is restricted to 120 Hz to 18 kHz. 113 dB at 1m.

Vocals and guitars actually sound great. There isn’t a lot of content below 120 Hz for most voices and guitars. The high frequency roll off is beyond the hearing of many, and for me, just results in a “warmer” sound.

But the Meyer Sound requires a full active design to sound good and you pay a very high price premium for size and SPL capability.

Wow, there’s even a hypercardioid version of the little MM4XP.

MM4XPD;

Coverage

Hypercardioid response with <10 dB front-to-back ratio up to 500 Hz 120° (500 Hz – 4 kHz); 80° (4 kHz – 10 kHz ±10°)

 

[GXAlan]

Wow, there’s even a hypercardioid version of the little MM4XP.

US8428284B2 - Loudspeaker with passive low frequency directional control - Google Patents

A loudspeaker is provided that passively achieves a directional polar response at low frequencies with a high degree of attenuation between the front and the back of the loudspeaker. The loudspeaker 11 has a transducer 13 , an enclosure 21 behind the transducer, and port openings 29 in...

patents.google.com

Standard version which is with Amir for testing

Hypercardioid model

 

[Willem]

First: how large is the room?
Second: the room makes the biggest contribution to the final sound, particualry at lower frequencies. So get some form of dsp room equalization.
Third: do not overspend on electronics. In a small room a WiiM Amp is all you need. If you need more power, a WiiM Ultra plus a Hypex or Purifi based class D power amp will be superb.
Fourth: consider multiple subwoofers (at least two).
FInally, read more here before you spend any money.

 

[ZCD]

Speakers depends on personal needs/taste and room but with an wiim ultra & Aiyima A70 e. x. you should be perfectly fine on the electronic side. Let them come and test yourself. If you don't like it you can still return, easy as these are small devices. I. m. o. a much smarter and better buy then this MF amp and even if you return you are richer on experience which could and will change your mind.

 

[Haskil]

Budget is around €4000 for amp, speakers and streamer / dac.

I am in Europe so some things are cheaper here and some more expensive. For instance I was also debating the Rogue Audio Sphinx and the Unison Research Simply Italy amps , but the Rogue is very expensive here (2600€) the Italy tube amp is quite affordable at 2000€

Why are you attracted to brands like the ones you're talking about?

Are their products overpriced and without any particular quality that distinguishes them positively from others?

In your case I would opt for a Wiim Pro Plus or a Wiim Ultra and a pair of amplified speakers to choose from Neuman, Genelec for example and with your budget you will have something magnificent that you can even color as you wish if you want a warm sound... And these speakers will still be there in 15 or 20 years and will eventually be repairable all that time...