Need Advice on Upgrading My System (KEF R3 + Fosi V3 Mono)

[longts]

Hello everyone,

First of all, I want to sincerely thank Amir for creating this amazing website and all the members here. Your reviews and discussions have helped many newcomers like me understand audio equipment correctly and save a lot of time and money.

I’m new to audio and have been following ASR for about three months. After reading some reviews here, I decided to build a small system with the following setup:

My current system:
• Streamer: Wiim Pro Plus
• DAC: SMSL D6S (Ugreen Coaxial Cable, 1m)
• Amplifiers: 2x Fosi V3 Mono (Ugreen XLR Cable, 1m, Two separate power supplies 48V 5A)
• Speakers: KEF R3 Non-Meta (Micca Speaker Cable)

For now, I’m quite happy with this system, but based on Amir’s reviews and some ASR members’ recommendations, I understand that adding a subwoofer would optimize my setup.

I’m considering two options:
1. Speedwoofer 10s MKII, but shipping and taxes to Vietnam will add $200 to the total cost.
2. REL T5x, which I can find in Vietnam as a like-new unit for about $500

Questions I need advice on:
1. How can I use PEQ optimally?
I’m currently using Wiim’s 10-band PEQ based on Spinorama PEQ, but I don’t notice much difference. Are there better ways to apply PEQ effectively?
2. If I use a mini PC as a streamer, can I still easily stream Tidal and Apple Music from my phone just like I do with Wiim? Would I get better PEQ options with a mini PC?
3. KEF R3 supports Bi-Amping, should I switch from 2x Fosi V3 Mono amps to 2x Topping PA5 II amps?
4. Subwoofer advise

I’d really appreciate any advice from the community!

 

[Rednaxela]

Have you measured and corrected your in-room bass response?

If not I’d start there!

 

[ZolaIII]

WiiM Pro Plus doesn't have sub out. Windows mini PC yes but mini ATX with PCI-E sound card. Measurement microphone and REW, EQ-APO. You use streaming app or other apps but they mainly don't have API integration like Spotify so you will have to use mause. Is there a normal and for a normal price subwoofer you can buy locally not importing it from US or elsewhere?

 

[kyuu]

1. How can I use PEQ optimally?
I’m currently using Wiim’s 10-band PEQ based on Spinorama PEQ, but I don’t notice much difference.

This is unsurprising if you look at a few things. First, the difference in the preference score between no EQ and EQ is less than 1. A difference in the preference score that small is basically meaningless. You could also notice that the filters are almost all rather high Q with low gain, which means they're likely not very audible changes. It's also easy to see in a comparison of the FR between no EQ and EQ:

Very little change. All this is to say that there's not much to correct in the anechoic response, so it's no wonder you're not noticing much difference with the EQ.

Are there better ways to apply PEQ effectively?

I would use the Wiim's room correction feature instead of trying to correct the anechoic response.

3. KEF R3 supports Bi-Amping, should I switch from 2x Fosi V3 Mono amps to 2x Topping PA5 II amps?

I wouldn't bother.

 

[longts]

Have you measured and corrected your in-room bass response?

If not, I’d start there!

I started room correlation of Wiim Pro Plus, but maybe the iPhone mic is not correct enough. I bought Dayton IMM 6 as an external mic for my iPhone, hoping I will get better results with Wiim. I’m using this setting for room correction, but I don't know if it is correct.

WiiM Pro Plus doesn't have a sub out. Windows mini PC yes but mini ATX with PCI-E sound card. Measurement microphone and REW, EQ-APO. You use streaming app or other apps but they mainly don't have API integration like Spotify so you will have to use mause. Is there a normal and for a normal price subwoofer you can buy locally not importing it from US or elsewhere?

Thank you for your advice. In Vietnam, we don't have Speedwoofer or Rythmik, but we do have Rel. Kef, Polk, Klipsch...
I am considering purchasing a used Rel T5x for about $450. Are there any options available to connect this sub to my system? If not, I might have to spend more to upgrade from the Wiim Pro to the Wiim Ultra.

This is unsurprising if you look at a few things. First, the difference in the preference score between no EQ and EQ is less than 1. A difference in the preference score that small is basically meaningless. You could also notice that the filters are almost all rather high Q with low gain, which means they're likely not very audible changes. It's also easy to see in a comparison of the FR between no EQ and EQ:

View attachment 436252

Very little change. All this is to say that there's not much to correct in the anechoic response, so it's no wonder you're not noticing much difference with the EQ.

I would use the Wiim's room correction feature instead of trying to correct the anechoic response.

I wouldn't bother.

Thank you for your detailed explanation. I attempted room correction, but as I mentioned earlier, I’m not sure how to set this up. I’m waiting for the Dayton IMM 6 to achieve better measurements.

 

[staticV3]

How can I use PEQ optimally?

Use anechoic frequency response correction for the KEF, like the preset found here: https://www.spinorama.org/speakers/KEF R3/ASR/index_asr.html
(No need to apply the first shelf filter, since bass would be offloaded to the sub)

Get a measurement microphone, measure your in-room response using the Moving Microphone Method, then knock down constructive room modes (peaks) below the Schröder frequency of your room.

I’m currently using Wiim’s 10-band PEQ based on Spinorama PEQ, but I don’t notice much difference.

The R3 is already pretty accurate out of the box, so there isn't much to correct regarding frequency response:


(Dashed: Stock, Solid: EQed)

3. KEF R3 supports Bi-Amping, should I switch from 2x Fosi V3 Mono amps to 2x Topping PA5 II amps?

Passive biamping is completely pointless.

Gains can be had this way only if you move the crossover upstream of the Amps, which is complicated and time-consuming.

 

[terryforsythe]

4. Subwoofer advise

Adding a subwoofer is what I would do.

Regardless of which subwoofer you choose, typically you will be able to achieve better integration of the subwoofer with the speakers if you use an active crossover.

You might do that with your mini PC with appropriate software and a 3 or 4-channel DAC.

Another option is to output from the streamer to an active crossover, then output from the active crossover to your amplifers and subwoofer. miniDSP offers numerous active crossovers, the most cost effective being a 2x4HD.

 

[ZolaIII]

@longts it really depends what you can find locally. I have pair of Wharfedale WH-D10 tho thinking switching (back) to studio setup and getting pair of Dynaudio BM9S. You preferably want one little bigger (12"). There are plenty of ways to connect and use sub but you really need to make as good crossover as you can between it and mains and passed above where R3's start to compress (and Metas are even worse in that manner). Some sub's have low level line (RCA) fixed at 80 Hz high pass which is well better than nothing. So it's either high pass/low self filter on device output for sub or multichannel device where you deticate chanel, clean it and copy L and add R to it and make crossover your self (using same mentioned PEQ filters and regular one's) with measurement microphone and measuring and shaping the response.
Try to search this way among the brands present there.

Subwoofer Comparison

I've created a *slightly large* subwoofer comparison spreadsheet. :D Info: -==Link to my Subwoofer Comparison spreadsheet ==- https://bit.ly/SubwooferComparison

www.audiosciencereview.com

Aim for 40 Hz SPL max and average linearity of the response on different SPL.

 

[longts]

@longts it really depends what you can find locally. I have pair of Wharfedale WH-D10 tho thinking switching (back) to studio setup and getting pair of Dynaudio BM9S. You preferably want one little bigger (12"). There are plenty of ways to connect and use sub but you really need to make as good crossover as you can between it and mains and passed above where R3's start to compress (and Metas are even worse in that manner). Some sub's have low level line (RCA) fixed at 80 Hz high pass which is well better than nothing. So it's either high pass/low self filter on device output for sub or multichannel device where you deticate chanel, clean it and copy L and add R to it and make crossover your self (using same mentioned PEQ filters and regular one's) with measurement microphone and measuring and shaping the response.
Try to search this way among the brands present there.

Subwoofer Comparison

I've created a *slightly large* subwoofer comparison spreadsheet. :D Info: -==Link to my Subwoofer Comparison spreadsheet ==- https://bit.ly/SubwooferComparison

www.audiosciencereview.com

Aim for 40 Hz SPL max and average linearity of the response on different SPL.

Thank you for sharing your insights.

As someone who is new to audio, I don’t have much knowledge about subwoofers and bass. Some experienced members of the audio group in Vietnam recommended that I consider REL subwoofers because, according to them, other brands are primarily designed for movies rather than for stereo music in a 2.1 setup. They mentioned that REL subwoofers produce bass that is both fast, soft and smooth, making them ideal for music.

My audio system is solely for music, and I plan to use the Wiim Ultra as an active crossover. MiniDSP offers excellent features, but it is quite expensive.

Is there any parameter in subwoofers that indicates how fast or soft the bass can be?

 

[ZolaIII]

@longts I prefer close bufle sub's and not skimping either on depot or bufle so big box and good subwoofer driver of course. That's all there is to it. Is there SVS there like SVS-SB1000 or SVS-SB1000 Pro? That would be general guideline regarding size at least. True low bass peaks in music content with be at mid 30's to 40's Hz and that's why that's primary target, when it does that good, it will do rest easy. R3 are made for 80 Hz crossover as that's how they are crossed with the port. When crossing with a sub it's recommended to plug the port's on them and you could try to go a bit up to 90 Hz to stress them down a little more.

 

[thunderchicken]

The RSL is awesome. I have the 12S and love it. You can get around the lack of sub out on the Wiim by running signal through the sub and then through the amps. That’s how mine runs. EQ would still work.

Sounds like you have an ideal setup!