Stream or own?

[sarumbear]

Let's hope Apple decide to create an app for Sonos.

Can you please explain what do you mean by an app for Sonos. I never used a Sonos system and the terminology is confusing me. Does Sonos speakers have a screen and the apps run on the speakers?

 

[okok]

enough money to buy hard drives?

 

[Zensō]

Can you please explain what do you mean by an app for Sonos. I never used a Sonos system and the terminology is confusing me. Does Sonos speakers have a screen and the apps run on the speakers?

S2: The Sonos OS and Controller App | Sonos

Take listening to the next level with Sonos S2. This new version of the app enables higher resolution audio, with 24-bit processing and Dolby Atmos support. It also sports an improved design, better security, new features like saved room groups, and smarter software to keep your system up to date.

www.sonos.com

 

[sarumbear]

S2: The Sonos OS and Controller App | Sonos

Take listening to the next level with Sonos S2. This new version of the app enables higher resolution audio, with 24-bit processing and Dolby Atmos support. It also sports an improved design, better security, new features like saved room groups, and smarter software to keep your system up to date.

www.sonos.com

That is what I learned from reading their website but what does an app for Sonos means. If by Sonos they mean their app (as you linked to it) then what is an app for an app?

 

[Matt Bell]

Can you please explain what do you mean by an app for Sonos. I never used a Sonos system and the terminology is confusing me. Does Sonos speakers have a screen and the apps run on the speakers?

Music is played on Sonos speakers (and amps) using the proprietary Sonos controller app — on a smartphone, tablet or PC/Mac.

Within the Sonos controller app, there are integrated music service apps. For instance there’s an app for Spotify, one for Qobuz, one for BBC Sounds, and so on.

These streaming and radio service apps are created by the streaming/radio companies themselves, using the Sonos API protocol. Sonos then tests them to ensure they work.

In this sense, the Sonos environment is somewhat like the Apple iOS “walled garden” environment, with its AppStore etc.

 

[dday84]

I am in my early 50s and started buying albums when I was 7 years old with allowance money. I've amassed a large collection of vinyl, CDs, SACDs, and multi-channel blu-ray and DVD discs in my lifetime so these are what I listen to mostly. However, I do stream as well, and if it was around when I was younger I would have loved it. I had limited money when I was a kid and teenager, so I had to be selective about what albums I bought. Streaming would have given me access to almost everything.

I do not think the economics of streaming are good for musicians, and sometimes older, more dynamic mastering of albums may not be available through streaming. These are the main drawbacks IMO........but overall streaming is a goldmine for music listeners.

 

[sarumbear]

Music is played on Sonos speakers (and amps) using the proprietary Sonos controller app — on a smartphone, tablet or PC/Mac.

Within the Sonos controller app, there are integrated music service apps. For instance there’s an app for Spotify, one for Qobuz, one for BBC Sounds, and so on.

These streaming and radio service apps are created by the streaming/radio companies themselves, using the Sonos API protocol. Sonos then tests them to ensure they work.

In this sense, the Sonos environment is somewhat like the Apple iOS “walled garden” environment, with its AppStore etc.

I understand now, thank you. I was confused with the terminology. Sonos calls them services, which I think is the correct terminology.

Sonos S2 is more than just an app. It's a platform that brings together all your streaming, voice, and control services so you can easily browse music, radio, podcasts, and audiobooks and listen your way.

However, as opening the Apple Classical app (or any other music app) is the same as opening the Sonos app, I personally don’t see anything different with streaming via AirPlay from the Classical app, bypassing the Sonos app all together. Am I correct?

 

[tuga]

I own enough music and prefer to stream locally.
We have a Spotify family account for the kids which I use only to discover new music.

I listen to Classical maybe 60% of the time and the rest is split between jazz, alternative rock (mostly from my youth) and traditional/ethnic.

Most alternative rock versions available on Spotify are poorly mastered and sound worse than my CD rips.

 

[Zensō]

If by Sonos they mean their app (as you linked to it) then what is an app for an app?

I suspect what they meant was integration within the Sonos app. Here’s a screenshot showing the services I have integrated in the Sonos S2 app. One of the selling points of Sonos is the wide selection of services that can be integrated. Apple Music is available, but so far Apple Classical is not. It’s likely just a matter of time before AC becomes available for integration.

However, as opening the Apple Classical app (or any other music app) is the same as opening the Sonos app, I personally don’t see anything different with streaming via AirPlay from the Classical app, bypassing the Sonos app all together. Am I correct?

One advantage to using the Sonos S2 app instead of Airplay is that the music is streamed directly to the speaker, bypassing the controlling device (similar to how Spotify Connect works). This is less of a battery drain on the controlling device than Airplay, and it also allows for a smoother handoff of control to other devices.

This is Apple Music running inside of the Sonos S2 app:

 

[pseudoid]

Not to slam anyones gear, but I wouldn't consider that path a High Fidelity one.
Call them audiophiles or normal but it's not about over-complication but about using a high quality component path..

First, MQA goes kaput: @Sal1950 becomes tickled pink!
But then, @Sal1950 hears that they are trying to take his hi-quality volume knob away: Consequences unknown!

 

[Sal1950]

But then, @Sal1950 hears that they are trying to take his hi-quality volume knob away: Consequences unknown!

Not a big Beatles fan but this song does come to mind.

 

[Matt Bell]

However, as opening the Apple Classical app (or any other music app) is the same as opening the Sonos app, I personally don’t see anything different with streaming via AirPlay from the Classical app, bypassing the Sonos app all together. Am I correct?

Yes, I suppose so. I sometimes use Spotify this way.

I guess there’s an argument that if you use the service via AirPlay, then you’re losing out on some of the search functionality in Sonos. When I search for a piece in the Sonos controller it returns results for my local library and Spotify — but it wouldn’t be able to find anything on Apple Music Classical. But that’s hardly a deal-breaker for me.

 

[pseudoid]

Not a big Beatles fan but this song does come to mind.

Even if @sarumbear gives you (and that Beatles song) a thumbs up; it does NOT mean I'd willing to listen to them... too many flashbacks.

 

[Liya]

Ryuichi Sakamoto died the other day and I was listening to some of the albums I have, and I noticed quite a few of his earlier stuff is not available to stream (Futurista and Media Bahn Live for example).

Both albums available on You Tube Music

 

[Sal1950]

Even if @sarumbear gives you (and that Beatles song) a thumbs up; it does NOT mean I'd willing to listen to them... too many flashbacks.

Nothing wrong with flashbacks.
You able to get high for a short time with no costs or hangover.

 

[Liya]

I understand now, thank you. I was confused with the terminology. Sonos calls them services, which I think is the correct terminology.



However, as opening the Apple Classical app (or any other music app) is the same as opening the Sonos app, I personally don’t see anything different with streaming via AirPlay from the Classical app, bypassing the Sonos app all together. Am I correct?

When using Airplay the device you are Airplaying from is the streamer (it connects with the service provider server). When the service is integrated within Sonos then Sonos connects to the service provider server and you use phone as a remote control/browser.

 

[Freeform]

Since it has been something of a sub-topic, what about having to purchase music in several formats over the years. You actually only get a license to use it. Yet royalties have been paid every time you purchase it. I've had the opinion when companies want to get so persnickety about copyrights and such maybe they also should honor the license. There have been many albums I've purchased as LPs, 8-tracks, and CD's. If someone offers downloads, should I be able to prove prior purchase of rights and get the download discounted for whatever royalties are? It wouldn't apply to remasters, but then part of the reason for remasters is selling the same music rights over again.

The ethics of my music listening always comes to mind when these topics are aired. CD was the new thing when I was in my early 20s and many of my friends started buying their record collections for the second time. They were mostly rock, pop or classical listeners. The record companies knew they were on to a good thing.
I was just getting into modern jazz, followed by the avant-garde, free jazz and free improvisation. Much of this music was slow to be released on CD, and I already had quite a good record player so I continued buying LPs, including many traded in by CD buyers, and those of people moving to nursing homes and beyond. Obviously, the artists received no royalties for my purchases. I believe, in many countries, the secondhand record trade is technically illegal but tolerated. Even today, I have many LPs that were never re-released, much less released on CD, and have yet to make it to any streaming service. Where neither LP nor CD have been available, I have done my best to find an acceptable rip by someone else.
(I am often surprised how good some of these LP rips can sound, on these modern well-measuring DACs reviewed by @amirm . They are nearly always acceptable)

 

[Matt Bell]

Many thanks for the suggestion.

Obviously the lack of an app within Sonos isn't ideal, but accessing the service via Airplay could be viable, and I gather there's another workaround: anything saved as a playlist in Apple Music Classical will automatically appear in the Apple Music app in Sonos. Let's hope Apple decide to create an app for Sonos.

As far as the metadata's concerned, based on a quick test I can see Apple Music Classical is massively better than other classical streaming services. Search for "J S Bach" in Apple Music Classical and you do actually get all the music by "J S Bach", "Johann Sebastian Bach", "Bach, J S" and "Bach, Johann Sebastian" (and no doubt all the incorrectly spelled variants) ALL IN ONE PLACE. This isn't how things used to be and is hugely better!

The problem is when you then want to browse J S Bach's compositions, they're all listed in what seems an entirely random order -- all 1,224 of them. Not in alphabetical order, not in order of BWV number, and not in subgenres (which is what I'd prefer). Which makes browsing a real PITA.

But it's still a pretty good effort compared to other services, and I can see it being usable, if frustrating.

So it turns out that AirPlay doesn't work with my (rather old) Sonos kit -- a motley collection of ZP120, ZP90 and Connect gen 1 boxes. I was expecting (irrationally) that AirPlay would be fine because Spotify Connect works with the old Sonos kit, but not so.

So the only way to use Apple Music Classical with my older Sonos gear is to create playlists in Apple Music Classical and then play these using the Apple Music app in the Sonos controller. That's too clunky a workaround for me.

I've also explored the Presto Music streaming service. It has a smaller list Apple Music Classical, but a better search function. (For instance if you search for a specific recording by giving the composer name, piece name and conductor name, Presto will give you a search result consisting of the desired recording only, whereas in Apple Music Classical the desired recording could be halfway down a long list of other recordings.)

Another advantage of the Presto streaming service is that it contains details of reviews (e.g. from The Gramophone or from BBC Radio 3's Record Review). This would be a big plus for me, because The Gramophone and BBC3 RR are my first ports of call for finding new recordings.

Sadly there's no way to play Presto Music on Sonos devices other than via AirPlay, so it's a non-starter for me. I gather Presto Music are working on integrating their service into the Sonos controller app, and I have a hunch they'll get this done before Apple do.

Another potential fly in the ointment with Presto is that it *seems* to default to hi-res versions (I still have to check whether this is in fact the case), and hi-res files won't play on Sonos.

 

[Cawafuoshi]

Once my goal was to rip everything I own and serve it up as needed. It turned out, I am too lazy to just do it. Plus, the backup handling/updating is just too much extra work.

I keep buying CDs and records of music I want to keep around when the internet goes down (it does happen), or I want to interact physically with (reading accompanying booklets, covers).

The Wiim Mini on the other hand is great for discovery and music I do not wish to own but enjoy listening to.

Internet radio is another pastime favorite and counts as streaming.

So, on the whole, I stream more than I do play physical media, but that might change if Tidal and Co. raise prices down the road.

 

[Keith_W]

Yes, I was intrigued by Presto as well. But it lacks a major function - it is unable to cast a stream from an Android device to a PC. In fact, ALL streaming companies except Spotify are unable to do this natively. It is possible to cast Tidal and Qobuz using third party apps like Roon and BubbleUPNP, but it's stupid that their own apps don't support it.