Stereophile's snide editorial on ASR and Amir

[JSmith]

a March to Western Australia

Well shit ay... that would take a long time mate from any other state.

I don't think I've seen any reports of a Purifi based amp popping, although did see an NCore do so documented here... hopefully when Purifi modules start to go it's just a cap or two that needs replacing rather than what happened to that NCore module. Nothing wrong at all though with refurbishing and using older 'built like a tank' amps either, especially when they have aesthetic appeal.


JSmith

 

[rwortman]

If he had that degree in electrical engineering, then you would have a point.

So are you saying that I can’t say he seems like a reasonable guy that’s entitled to his opinion because he has the wrong degree?

I worked in a place where it seemed like everybody and his or her mother-in-law had a doctorate in something. They weren’t all wizards but none of them were actually stupid.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

If he had that degree in electrical engineering, then you would have a point.

Even a degree in electrical engineer doesn't exempt someone from having absolutely crazy ideas about sound reproduction. I had a late friend like that. His room had severe slap echoes and he liked it because it sounded to him like a 'dance hall', although he listened to classical, jazz, rock etc (he had Vandersteens). No accounting for taste I guess.

 

[Axo1989]

Well shit ay... that would take a long time mate from any other state.

I don't think I've seen any reports of a Purifi based amp popping, although did see an NCore do so documented here... hopefully when Purifi modules start to go it's just a cap or two that needs replacing rather than what happened to that NCore module. Nothing wrong at all though with refurbishing and using older 'built like a tank' amps either, especially when they have aesthetic appeal.

JSmith

Pre-pandemic the postal scenario would have been more favourable, it certainly takes a while these days. I won't be marching there though.

Fyi I've no general objection to Purifi amps—in case clarification is needed—they are quite impressive. Also fyi (and somewhat gratuitously) shit ay would be UK vernacular, shit eh would be Oz (I thought you were Australian, but that may be someone else).

 

[krabapple]

The unpleasant truth is that, in your universe, you need blind tests to compare all gear on a permanent basis. And that will never happen. Performing a limited blind test yourself (and writing about it) will not be believed by everybody.

So you have to compare yourself, like almost everyone does. When I accuse measure-heroes like you that they must think good-measuring dacs or amplifiers sound the same they get angry and say ‘ofcourse not’. The subjective part of the hobby they keep for themselves.

What world are you living in?
First of all, there is nothing 'accusatory' in what I bolded, except in your mind.
Second, this 'measure-hero' would reply 'they should, when compared fairly' to you.

Let me repeat:
'Good measuring" (and there's a subject to be explored) DAC's SHOULD sound the same. Good-measuring amps SHOULD sound the same. When compared fairly.

Very, very strange.

Yes, you appear to be.

 

[krabapple]

It looks like there is an upper class of people that can decide for the poor: the ones not willing to screw up their lives doing blind tests but just use their ears. And then post an observation, trying to avoid the word ‘truth’.

Here's an observation: it looks like what you've written here is a steaming load of tendentious, self-serving horseshit.

 

[Sal1950]

"But hey, a Pass will smash any hypex or Purifi."

Only if you drop it on one. LOL

I had a late friend like that. His room had severe slap echoes and he liked it because it sounded to him like a 'dance hall', although he listened to classical, jazz, rock etc (he had Vandersteens).

A cheap audiophiles surround system.

As for landfill you know how much they are filled with expensive shavings for the large amp cases?

Amir, this brings to mind a question I've been meaning to ask you.
With your knowledge of circuit design and the internal parts used in any particular component's build, how possible do you believe it may or may not be to reasonably predict a DUT's life span in a review? Can you look at the cap's, resistors, etc and be fairly comfortable with predicting if it might outlive us, or does it set you up to worry?
A question that's often wondered by myself and others here I'm sure, but little is often said outside of "built like a tank" or "metalwork is really thin and flimsy".
TIA, Sal

 

[krabapple]

Just guard against putting every member of ASR in the same category. Doing that is a total misunderstanding of the broad spectrum of mindsets here.

True that . For example, you were mighty impressed by 'measure-hero', whereas to me, it read as a cute awkwardness that a non-native speaker might construct absent fuller mastery of English vocabulary.

 

[krabapple]

More expensive gear is typically better. So if you're clueless when reviewing equipment, then McIntosh is a safe bet. Everyone agrees that it sounds good with badly and well-recorded music. Recommending McIntosh is easy.

More 'folk wisdom' masquerading as knowledge.

 

[krabapple]

It's not, though it's much better than my (nonexistent) Dutch. The correct way to render your very witty insult would be "measurement heroes." (That is, "measurement" instead of "measure.")

"Measurement fans" ('fanboys' if you want to be internet snarky) would be clearer still and more fitting.

'Measurement heroes' or even the more idiomatic 'measurement champions' are both still awkward. They could mean 'people who are superlative at taking measurements' as well as 'people who promote the use of measurements".

 

[Sal1950]

Even stranger is when you really think the perfect measuring gear really sounds the same.

They do, with certain reservations. And it's these reservations that folks like you want to ignore and pretend we don't take into account.
Things like how an amp behaves as it nears clipping or becomes unhappy with certain details of the input or output impedance, etc. There are always certain details that can unset the sound of any particular component and these things are revealed when properly measured.
I'm sorry my friend, but there is NO magic-dust in todays electronic reproduction chain that you can hear with your "24k golden-ears and incredibly resolving equipment" that can't and isn't measured.

Let me repeat:
'Good measuring" (and there's a subject to be explored) DAC's SHOULD sound the same. Good-measuring amps SHOULD sound the same. When compared fairly.

Exactly!
A big 10-4 there good buddy.

More expensive gear is typically better.

Better what?
Better looking, it damn well should be and usually is.
Better built, as in parts quality , again it damn well should be and usually is.
Better sounding, as in more accurate, transparent, better measuring? Oh hell no and quite often the reverse is very true.
The best examples would be things like tube gear and SET amps which normally measure full of distortion, who's output doesn't come close to resembling a straight wire with gain. They're just big tone controls and euphoric distortion creators.

 

[krabapple]

You can't do a blind test while setting up a projector, so just plug you ears instead, I 'spoze.

As long as you can't know which projector is playing at the moment, it's a blind comparison.

You seem unclear on what 'blind' means in the context of experimental controls.

 

[krabapple]

It's statements like this that make it hard to take any of your conclusions seriously. This is dogma pure and simple. Hundreds of thousands of music fans hear differences due to how cables react to specific components but you do not. Several highly regarded cable companies even explain how their cables effect the sound - Analysis Plus, Audience and Shunyata come to mind. I suspect their engineers have a much better background to discuss these effects than you.

Hello new member. Enjoy your upcoming journey of discovery. Or of leaving, whatever.

 

[krabapple]

I just take issue with the last 8~9 posts for trying so hard to be right over the opposition. It's not a battle worth fighting. Because each camp won't budge. If someone enjoys their 1000$ speaker cables, then there's nothing you can do to stop them.

Who cares if they enjoy them?

Now if they make a public claim that theirs actually sound better than --and thus *perform audibly differently than* -- someone else's, that latter is a claim of objective difference, worthy of interrogation.

 

[Sal1950]

The correct way to render your very witty insult would be "measurement heroes.

I'm beginning to enjoy the term "measurement hero"
I believe this site has started to take on the role of hero to the audio community in general.
Removing the veils of BS that have been put in place by the audiophool media for increasing the wealth of the BS artists.

 

[amirm]

Amir, this brings to mind a question I've been meaning to ask you.
With your knowledge of circuit design and the internal parts used in any particular component's build, how possible do you believe it may or may not be to reasonably predict a DUT's life span in a review? Can you look at the cap's, resistors, etc and be fairly comfortable with predicting if it might outlive us, or does it set you up to worry?

I do some of that during a teardown. Without it, it is very hard unless it runs super hot in which case, I do report it.

 

[krabapple]

I'm not buying this BS from you. You have a clear bias against them already so I'm certain you're going to just say it didn't perform well no matter what. That specific amp is far better than any garbage Denon Receiver.

Gott im Himmel, looks like we got ourselves a 'distort-hero' here!

 

[Bruce Morgen]

They're just big tone controls and euphoric distortion creators.

I think the word is "euphonic" -- although euphoria is one possible outcome.

 

[theREALdotnet]

This is dogma pure and simple. Hundreds of thousands of music fans hear differences due to how cables react to specific components but you do not.

Did you know that virtually everybody on Earth sees the Sun going around the Earth every day? How did it happen that Galileo’s dogma got stuck in the public mind, despite the observation of billions? What do you reckon? Marketing?

 

[krabapple]

More expensive gear is typically better.

the phrase 'sweet summer child' comes to mind

How much betterness should $14K buy us?

Chord DAVE Review (DAC & HP Amp)

This is a review, detailed measurements and listening tests of CHORD DAVE combination DAC and headphone amplifier. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $14,000. Having been frustrated with the user interface of lower end Chord products with their color Morse codes, I was really looking...

www.audiosciencereview.com