Stereophile's Jim Austin Says Streaming Atmos Sucks

[Newman]

Should be solvable. At the end of the day the systems are in service of the music. If we couldn’t find source material for such a shoot out what does that say? If Dolby Atmos limited my options of source material that would be a nonstarter.

I guess that pegs you as the latest-of-late-adopters for new recording formats.

Others find progress to be much more interesting.

 

[Newman]

I would love to see the MITR column revived but not by me. I am enjoying my retirement and do not want to (re)-encumber the responsibilities that are required for the column.

Yeah, time is of the essence. Same reason why I once had to turn HP down when he invited me to start a new regular column for TAS. A career in engineering/ infrastructure/ corporate leadership/ regulation/ government policy has its own special way of sucking up time. But yes, I was under no illusion that writing a well-researched column to publishing deadlines was going to be anything less than demanding.

Man, that was so long ago. Haven’t we all moved on! Not so much for dear old Harry, sadly.

cheers

 

[Justdafactsmaam]

I guess that pegs you as the latest-of-late-adopters for new recording formats.

Others find progress to be much more interesting.

I’m not going to invest a lot of money into a format that doesn’t have sufficient source material to justify the investment.

So yes, I will be late to the game if I jump in at all. I am quite open to being convinced it’s the better format and will better serve enough recordings of interest to make it worth the time, money and effort.

But I am open to the possibility that it doesn’t measure up to competing technology.

I’m even open to the possibility that the best strategy is inclusive of more than one format.

 

[mhardy6647]

Conveniently placed in the middle of a large doorway, I see.

The Col. had his priorities.
ahem.
That room is interesting no matter how you look at it.
The ceiling height appears to be gymnasium-worthy.

 

[Newman]

If there are people here that haven’t heard the superiority of TrueHD Atmos compared to DD+ Atmos, level matched, there is no point discussing.
Really.

What about the people over at production-expert.com?

“Listening to Dolby Atmos albums with TIDAL or Apple Music on loudspeakers in a calibrated 7.1.4 or 9.2.6 room is wonderful. It’s a quantum-leap over stereo and a huge improvement over surround sound. I feel like a kid in a candy store surfing Apple Music in 7.1.4.” - Nat Reichman, lead mixer at Dubway Studios, NYC, who has a lot of experience on classical music albums, writing an article on Apple Music for industry pros.

Now I admit he is not comparing it to lossless Atmos, but it sure doesn’t sound like he has major issues with it. It also sure doesn’t sound like “I’ll stick to stereo thanks, until the Atmos is lossless.” Nor does it sound like “there’s no point discussing.”

You might have to consider that you are reacting to issues in the quality of the production, not the limitations of the streaming format. Also, cognitive bias can taint things even if you don’t want it to. How many people reckon they clearly hear the terribleness of (transparent) 320 mp3, just because they resent the fact that it isn’t lossless? Or the terribleness of 16/44 compared to high-res? (Hint: a lot.)

Dolby Labs determined via extensive listening tests that 768 kbps Atmos delivers transparency. That is the rate used in Apple Music.

cheers

 

[fernando.yang]

I'm thinking to gradually upgrade my setup to 5.1.2 Dolby Atmos for stream and local music playing.

I have a pair of KEF R5 Meta, a pair of LS50 non-meta. I'm planning to add a sub and miniDSP Flex HT this year, making it a 4.1 setup. Next year a central speaker and 2 atmos speakers.

Any advice appreciate.

 

[mhardy6647]

Now I admit he is not comparing it to lossless Atmos, but it sure doesn’t sound like he has major issues with it. It also sure doesn’t sound like “I’ll stick to stereo thanks, until the Atmos is lossless.” Nor does it sound like “there’s no point discussing.”

“Listening to Dolby Atmos albums with TIDAL or Apple Music on loudspeakers in a calibrated 7.1.4 or 9.2.6 room is wonderful. It’s a quantum-leap over stereo and a huge improvement over surround sound. I feel like a kid in a candy store surfing Apple Music in 7.1.4.”
- Nat Reichman, lead mixer at Dubway Studios, NYC, who has a lot of experience on classical music albums, writing an article on Apple Music for industry pros.

Doesn't sound like it's being compared to anything (except some vague reference to "surround sound" in the writer's memory*). And -- ahem -- this being ASR one feels compelled to add that the comparison sounds neither controlled nor quantitative.
But, hey, it'll sell loudspeakers, interconnects, and speaker cabling!

____________
* long accepted as a gold standard on ASR, needless to say!

EDIT:

I’m even open to the possibility that the best strategy is inclusive of more than one format.

Wouldn't that be refreshing?

 

[Sal1950]

I had Quad 8-track tapes. Genuine fully separate 4 channels.

For sure, maybe the most popular method of distribution back in the day.
There was also 7 1/2 ips Reel to Reel available in limited numbers.
Just didn't set out to write a book on Quad in 70's LOL

Same reason why I once had to turn HP down when he invited me to start a new regular column for TAS.

Wow, I didn't know that!
Rumor has it you'd had to be a masochist to work for HP.

I’m not going to invest a lot of money into a format that doesn’t have sufficient source material to justify the investment.

I think if you did some homework you might be very surprised at the volume of material available..
With over 6 decades of various multich releases out there from Classical, Jazz and Popular.
But your call in any case.

I'm thinking to gradually upgrade my setup to 5.1.2 Dolby Atmos for stream and local music playing.

I have a pair of KEF R5 Meta, a pair of LS50 non-meta. I'm planning to add a sub and miniDSP Flex HT this year, making it a 4.1 setup. Next year a central speaker and 2 atmos speakers.

Any advice appreciate.

Sounds like a great plan.
I'd reference Amir's reviews of the various AVR's and Pre/Pro's to get a great sounding front end for the project.

 

[Ken1951]

I had a friend/customer back in the day that we set up with one of these, 2 Mac 2105s, and 4 Mac ML-1Cs. Sounded surprisingly good in 1975 or so.

 

[fernando.yang]

Sounds like a great plan.
I'd reference Amir's reviews of the various AVR's and Pre/Pro's to get a great sounding front end for the project.

With miniDSP Flex HT which can handle 8 channels LPCM, I'm thinking of using a Fury HD device to split audio from Apple TV 4K and feed the Apple Music Atmos datas to miniDSP. In this case AVR is not needed. Am I correct?

 

[Sal1950]

With miniDSP Flex HT which can handle 8 channels LPCM, I'm thinking of using a Fury HD device to split audio from Apple TV 4K and feed the Apple Music Atmos datas to miniDSP. In this case AVR is not needed. Am I correct?

To be honest I'm not really sure about controlling things in that manner.
Just doing a quick review I don't see where an Atmos data stream is going to be decoded in that path?
Maybe someone else here (@Kal Rubinson ) can answer that with more certainty.
Cheers

 

[Justdafactsmaam]

I think if you did some homework you might be very surprised at the volume of material available..
With over 6 decades of various multich releases out there from Classical, Jazz and Popular.
But your call in any case.

I have done some homework but, as you say, I might be surprised.
I actually am not only a fan of classical music but a fan of current artists in classical music. And so I am aware that there is at least a decent amount of dedicated multi-channel recordings of relatively new classical music. But not quite enough yet. Most of my favorite artists still are living in a stereo world. And so far my experience with stereo recordings in rock that have been up-mixed have been very disappointing. Doesn’t mean it can’t get better in time.

I’m not closing the door. But I’m not jumping in either until I feel the source material warrants the investment.

There is homework left to be done. I still want to find a true example of state of art Dolby Atmos.

 

[Sal1950]

I had a friend/customer back in the day that we set up with one of these, 2 Mac 2105s, and 4 Mac ML-1Cs. Sounded surprisingly good in 1975 or so.

I owned the Phase Linear 1000 which was the stand alone version of all the "autocorrelator" software included in that 4000 preamp. I loved much of what it was able to do for LP playback in the area of noise reduction, controlling rumble, etc. Kept it
in my rig for a couple decades till I sold off all my vinyl.

 

[iGude]

I think if you did some homework you might be very surprised at the volume of material available..
With over 6 decades of various multich releases out there from Classical, Jazz and Popular.

In principle, I agree with you. But unfortunately these six decades of MCH recordings with many excellent examples are not available for streaming since they are not Dolby Atmos but 5.1 „only“.

They could be converted to Atmos and made available for streaming easily…guess I’m daydreaming too much.

 

[Left]

With miniDSP Flex HT which can handle 8 channels LPCM, I'm thinking of using a Fury HD device to split audio from Apple TV 4K and feed the Apple Music Atmos datas to miniDSP. In this case AVR is not needed. Am I correct?

I have read elsewhere that ATV has issues as an audio server. One was that audio processes cannot run in the background and will eventually disconnect. Running headless is also problematic and Apple has advised against it. If you do pursue this route, investigate OwnTune, an Apple compliant media server.

I would love to be corrected by someone with firsthand experience as I too have considered this approach.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

To be honest I'm not really sure about controlling things in that manner.
Just doing a quick review I don't see where an Atmos data stream is going to be decoded in that path?
Maybe someone else here (@Kal Rubinson ) can answer that with more certainty.
Cheers

I do not know much about the miniDSP Flex HT or the Fury HD but I doubt either will decode.

 

[Ze Frog]

So, we don’t like MQA because it’s lossy and Stereophile is wrong, but we won’t tolerate Stereophile criticizing lossy ATMOS because, well, it’s Stereophile and ATMOS is ‘science.’

LOL!

Lol.

And this is the problem with streaming and all digital stuff now, exactly why I'll never give up my CD's. There's no enjoyment to streaming, everyone I know is always constantly checking to make sure they are getting the right bit rate etc and anxious as to weather it's really master quality and all that type of thing.

 

[Purité Audio]

I enjoy streaming and rarely if ever look at sampling rate or bit depth, Quboz is lossless so just press play.
Keith

 

[Sal1950]

They could be converted to Atmos and made available for streaming easily…guess I’m daydreaming too much.

Not so easy. To be a true Atmos release would require going back to the master tapes and a new mix created.
Now I do believe Apple is streaming some 5.1 and 4.0 Quad music under the flag of "Dolby Audio" but not tons.
Long thread listing many is here.

Music streaming on Apple Music in 5.1 (Dolby Audio)

So I know that Dolby Audio has started cropping up in places on Apple Music. Seems to be 5.1 mixes that they're making available. I confirmed 5.1 from my AppleTV from an album mentioned in another thread here. But there have also been some mishaps with stuff showing as Dolby Audio in places but...

www.quadraphonicquad.com

 

[Dimifoot]

It also sure doesn’t sound like “I’ll stick to stereo thanks, until the Atmos is lossless.”

I never listen to stereo.

How many people reckon they clearly hear the terribleness of (transparent) 320 mp3, just because they resent the fact that it isn’t lossless?

I have passed this test back in 2015.