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Step Up Transformers? Pros / Cons?
- Thread starter watchnerd
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Dropbox, Google drive, one drive, or similar.
orangejello
Active Member
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- Apr 18, 2019
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According to the Vinyl Engine Database 183 ohms is right in line with the manufacturers recommendation. Almost all of the MC cartridges I’ve had required 80 - 120 reflected load. You might want to play with loading just for fun though. You will alter the sound a bit and you may find it more pleasing.
As regards bass, until I got the NAD M22 v2 amplifier I couldn’t hear a difference in bass response when I compared cds to lps. With the NAD I can hear that the lps have slightly less tight bass (I’m not talking organ pedal tones here, just tones above around 30 hz). That being said, it is pleasantly surprising how decent LP bass can be.
As far as active versus passive step up, I have had some pretty decent active setups. For awhile I used the Pass Aleph Ono, which is pretty good and very flexible . But in the end I always returned to transformers due to lower noise and because the active stuff usually sounded grainy. The only close contender was a circuit a friend of mine prototyped but never completed. I still have the prototype though. It needs some attention to shielding as it can hum at very low levels if everything is oriented perfectly.
As regards bass, until I got the NAD M22 v2 amplifier I couldn’t hear a difference in bass response when I compared cds to lps. With the NAD I can hear that the lps have slightly less tight bass (I’m not talking organ pedal tones here, just tones above around 30 hz). That being said, it is pleasantly surprising how decent LP bass can be.
As far as active versus passive step up, I have had some pretty decent active setups. For awhile I used the Pass Aleph Ono, which is pretty good and very flexible . But in the end I always returned to transformers due to lower noise and because the active stuff usually sounded grainy. The only close contender was a circuit a friend of mine prototyped but never completed. I still have the prototype though. It needs some attention to shielding as it can hum at very low levels if everything is oriented perfectly.
OP
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
- Thread Starter
- #185
I decided to just go nuts and splurge. I just ordered:
Dale Brand CMF60 MIL-SPEC 1/2W Resistors, 1% Value: 8.25K (2) @ $0.45 = $0.90
Dale Brand CMF60 MIL-SPEC 1/2W Resistors, 1% Value: 12.1K (2) @ $0.45 = $0.90
Dale Brand CMF60 MIL-SPEC 1/2W Resistors, 1% Value: 56.2K (2) @ $0.45 = $0.90
Dale Brand CMF60 MIL-SPEC 1/2W Resistors, 1% Value: 150K (2) @ $0.45 = $0.90
Total: $3.60
Perhaps a little indulgent and audiophoolish of me, but hey #YOLO.
OP
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
- Thread Starter
- #187
Started a separate thread for the vinyl rip comparison:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...tening-comparison-test-dsp-phono-vs-sut.8213/
OP
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
- Thread Starter
- #188
Posted rips to allow comparison of Devialet with and without SUT:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...tening-comparison-test-dsp-phono-vs-sut.8213/
I use custom Cinemag SUTs with a tube preamp (Hovland Hp100). They also have excellent harmonic distortion and frequency response, but without the addition of a MU metal shield they were virtually unlistenable to- almost as bad as the Schiit Mani- and even with that they can't match an active preamp with a SMPS for hum rejection.
Bald1
Member
Several have mentioned Cinemag. I'm using a DIY SUT I built in 2006 employing a pair of Cinemag CMQEE-3440A. This gives me some additional gain over the ~60dB or so my preamp MC stage provides. They work fantastic with my Denon DL-304 (0.19mV @ 1.2g) & Denon DL-103D (0.28mV @ 1.5g) low output moving coil cartridges in Orsonic AV-1 anti-vibration and Sumiko HS12 headshells. These with my George Merrill modified The AR Turntable with Sumiko Premier MMT tonearm, VTA-16 base, and Premier PIB-1 phono interface box.
The DIY SUT is shown in the right rear of this picture:
The DIY SUT is shown in the right rear of this picture:
OP
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
- Thread Starter
- #191
Several have mentioned Cinemag. I'm using a DIY SUT I built in 2006 employing a pair of Cinemag CMQEE-3440A. This gives me some additional gain over the ~60dB or so my preamp MC stage provides. They work fantastic with my Denon DL-304 (0.19mV @ 1.2g) & Denon DL-103D (0.28mV @ 1.5g) low output moving coil cartridges in Orsonic AV-1 anti-vibration and Sumiko HS12 headshells. These with my George Merrill modified The AR Turntable with Sumiko Premier MMT tonearm, VTA-16 base, and Premier PIB-1 phono interface box.
The DIY SUT is shown in the right rear of this picture:
Thanks, really nice looking TT...too bad they don't make those anymore.
Did you add any loading or Zobel network or anything else to the DIY SUTs? How did you handle grounding?
Bald1
Member
The transformer primaries are wired up to utilize the 37.5 and 150 Ohm taps. The output is fed to my preamplifier's phone stage. You can see the tiny ground wire to the left of the red RCA plug. It is tied to the preamp ground.
If you do a search you'll find lots of DIY examples on line going back to 2006 when I did mine.
If you do a search you'll find lots of DIY examples on line going back to 2006 when I did mine.
OP
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
- Thread Starter
- #193
The transformer primaries are wired up to utilize the 37.5 and 150 Ohm taps. The output is fed to my preamplifier's phone stage. You can see the tiny ground wire to the left of the red RCA plug. It is tied to the preamp ground.
If you do a search you'll find lots of DIY examples on line going back to 2006 when I did mine.
It looks like you chose to forego the Zobel network, if I'm reading correctly.
If so, what are your thoughts about those who advocate using a Zobel to reduce transformer ringing vs just using resistors to do it?
Bald1
Member
I simply went with what others had found to be outstanding and remain extremely pleased to this day over a decade later. Never engaged in any research or discussions about modifying or further enhancing the circuit above.
I have a pair of these in my parts bin:
I will keep using my Technics SL10 MC stage and forget SUT. I am pretty well past DIY now, preferring plug-and-play.
Well, I have the parts to socket them on a die-cast jiffy box with RCA connectors and put them up on Ebay for a value-added hit. Hmmm.
I will keep using my Technics SL10 MC stage and forget SUT. I am pretty well past DIY now, preferring plug-and-play.
Well, I have the parts to socket them on a die-cast jiffy box with RCA connectors and put them up on Ebay for a value-added hit. Hmmm.
Last edited:
Tom C
Major Contributor
Sorry. Three years later, I’m reviewing to refresh my memory, and I’m just now seeing this because I’m redoing my system, and would like to get it right this time. I didn’t start out at the top like you did, with Devialet. Don’t know why I missed the post originally.
Quick answer is no. I just haven’t worried about it. Seems to me, what a person wants is to minimize capacitance everywhere, then measure with instruments to fine tune zobel with precision.
Tom C
Major Contributor
Most of my audio projects are on temporary hold at the moment; dealing with some family issues which are keeping me away from my lab. But soon. In the meantime, there's still some good introductory info in my His Master's Noise article at diyAudio (I'm assuming it's still there).
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