Starkrimson® Ultra Amplifier Modules -- 250/500W into 8/4ohm

[DonH56]

Lol I meant Orchard. But in any event I agree.

Ah, marketing is a mystery, but senility I understand completely.

 

[SIY]

I'll give Stuart a pass because it is a really good amplifier.

It is indeed.

 

[restorer-john]

However ... your injection of unfounded, illogical and unscientific reviews into this thread (and subsequent defense of the same) is, I believe, out of line here.

Huh?

This entire thread is posted in the desperate dealers section. Inherent self serving bias is expected.

Promoting your product is expected.

Orchard has played by ASR’s rules since that was pointed out many years ago. He treads a careful line and does it well.

 

[DonH56]

Since we are side-tracked, one thing I have seen over the years is that sometimes a rash of similar subjective opinions and reviews can indicate something is wrong (or right) that we can find technically. The classic example is TIM: heard by many, oft dismissed, but technical analysis uncovered a real problem. IME that sort of thing is a minority, most often a subjective opinion at odds with the objective data is simply bias, but not always. For amplifiers, I tend to find the usual technical reason for differences is either higher noise floor or higher output impedance, both of which can lead to audible differences.

Anyway, I tend to question subjective reviews, especially the glossy syrupy over-the-top ones that seem to be the norm now, but not dismiss them out of hand without a closer look. There is danger in adhering too closely to any one point of view.

/babble_mode_off - Don

 

[orchardaudio]

one thing I have seen over the years is that sometimes a rash of similar subjective opinions and reviews can indicate something is wrong (or right) that we can find technically.

Thanks, I would like to think that in my case you can find something right...

I seem to be one of a small group of manufacturers where objective and subjective results meet.

 

[SIY]

Objectivists don’t go to audio shows because

...they're reading Ayn Rand books.

 

[DonH56]

So far who’s bought more amps, subjectivists or objectivists? Objectivists don’t go to audio shows because the only way to evaluate audio gear at audio shows is subjectively. You only need written text and plots for objective analysis. So an Internet forum is enough.

That's petty and wrong.

 

[goryu]

What’s petty and wrong? You never see any spectators showing up at audio shows with AP’s. So what’s the point in going if you’re not there to partake in subjectivist activities?

It's petty and wrong because it assumes the two ways to appreciate audio are mutually exclusive.

 

[SIY]

That’s the impression I’m getting from some of the comments on this thread. The slight mention of subjectivists enjoying these amps caused quite the uproar. Even though they have proven themselves objectively.

I didn't realize that speakers and headphones don't appear at shows. Maybe my memory is faulty?

I'll admit that when I've been in the rooms of electronics manufacturers, I ask about features, performance, and design. I don't spend much time "listening" to electronics, that's indeed pretty pointless.

 

[SIY]

So what tools are you using to evaluate the headphones and speakers? Klippel?

That's a very weirdly shaped straw man you've assembled.

 

[SIY]

Just curious how an objectivist...

I'm sure you are. But I don't know how many Ayn Rand acolytes are here, so it may help if you ask one directly.

 

[SIY]

So your answer is to completely dodge the question. Ok thanks for the insight.

Sorry, I'm busy being flamed off the forum.

Why are you expecting an answer to an inherently dishonest question?

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Just curious how an objectivist would evaluate speakers and headphones at an audio show using a methodology that wouldn’t get him flamed off the forum.

By being aware of the limitations and report accordingly?

Amir's 2023 Pacific Audio Fest Report

Hello everyone. I attended the 2023 Pacific Audio Fest (PAF) today. I was pleased with the relaxed atmosphere of the show. Just enough people were there as to there being interest but not too crowded. The show is about 20% the size of the major audio shows like AXPONA and now defunct RMAF. I...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[goryu]

It’s not dishonest. I’m genuinely interested in the answer. I just witnessed 2 pages of Orchard Audio being nearly flamed off the forum by the collective for merely mentioning that people attending audio shows found rooms that were utilizing his amplifiers subjectively pleasing. For me what this has shown is their methodology of evaluating his amps at the audio shows was unacceptable. If this is the case, please tell me the acceptable methodology for evaluating the amps at an audio show that would be officially approved by the ASR collective?

Even if you believe there is utility in subjective impressions, understanding how audio components are part of a system, which includes the room, are you sure there is a valid methodology for evaluating any audio component's subjective performance outside of one's own listening space with one's other components?

Of course there are various objective metrics for evaluation other than sonic performance that could be used: price, features, warranty, etc.

The issue of course with subjective evaluations is that they have no utility for anyone but the person making them and as such, are rather a waste of space.

 

[goryu]

Exactly why an objectivist has no place at an audio show.

One could just as easily say that given as I said above that audio components are part of a system, including the room, and will thus behave differently in one's own room with one's own components, there is no place at an audio show for subjectivists either.

Frankly, how can anyone make any sort of evaluation of the performance of audio gear at an audio show? Does anyone with any knowledge or experience really make purchase decisions based on what they hear in a hotel room? No doubt many go to see what's out there, listen to music on expensive equipment they could otherwise never hear, learn about new tech, etc. It's an opportunity to meet designers, learn, and socialize, not a place to pick components.

 

[fpitas]

Given as I said above that audio components are part of a system, including the room, and will thus behave differently in one's own room with one's own components, there is no place at an audio show for subjectivists either.

Agreed. Audio shows should just be a way for audio companies to expense travel to marketing while they goof off.

 

[DavidEdwinAston]

Good as they may be, aren't the Orchard products comparitively expensive?

 

[Deleted member 21219]

How can you have a good time inter-mingling with delusional subjectivists fawning over snake oil cables and magic stones. I’d avoid the activity entirely.

Some people have more self-control and a more disciplined mind that others. You know yourself better than we know you, so you make the choice that is appropriate for you.

Jim

 

[fpitas]

Good as they may be, aren't the Orchard products comparitively expensive?

I guess it depends on your scale of expense. Compared to most SOTA AB amps for example, especially the "high-end" brands, they're a real bargain.

 

[DavidEdwinAston]

I guess it depends on your scale of expense. Compared to most SOTA AB amps for example, especially the "high-end" brands, they're a real bargain.

That, I appreciate f. I was thinking of Nord or Audiophonics products.