Spotify to launch 'Hi-Fi' CD Quality Tier.

[ThatM1key]

I know you have a personal vendetta with all the "DR" stuff but to be perfectly frank: I always found excessively high dynamic range annoying as heck.

I don't want to flinch when a drum is hit just because I have to pump up the volume to be able to hear the subtle stuff.
DR is even more annoying in movies where dialogue (even humans screaming at the top of their lungs) is retardedly quiet compared to the boom boom effects.

I think a streaming service is great in order to discover the music, once you have found the candidates you like you can then proceed to buy physical media to get the best sonic quality. I doubt we will see multichannel FLAC streaming anytime soon.

High DR is important to me because it can immersive you better with the music. The hit of the drum will have a better punch than compared to a low DR one. Once you make the quiet and loud parts the same volume, it will sound funny and be fucked forever. Very comparable to dropping a baby.

 

[voodooless]

Very comparable to dropping a baby.

I think the main issue here is the average playback level of the music in conjunction with how we perceive the loudness. High DR content needs quite a bit of volume to enjoy it. Since most streaming services are consumed on puny Bluetooth speakers, it makes sense to lower DR to make them sound better on those. And obviously, this has been going on for decades now, so also most CD mixes are affected by now.

I'd rather like them to just leave the source at high DR, and bake in metadata for the decoder to convert to a lower DR version if desired by the listener.

 

[ShadowFiend]

I’m not using spotify but I guess 320 vorbis will probably sound the same as their 16/44 offering.
What I do know however, is 16/44 on Tidal, Deezer, and Qobuz are exactly same files. And they are not exact copies of 16/44 CDs. 24/96s on Qobuz are actually more like CD, because in most albums, that extra 8 bit is empty. And 24/96 is what label send to press on CD which converted to 16/44 in the process.

I have bought several 16-44.1 albums (from Sony Classical, DG, Decca, Warner Classics) on qobuz, and they match perfectly (bit perfect) with my CD rip from newly bought CD (test with Pkane's DeltaWave software). Two albums do not match, and it is because my rips of those albums are from second-hand CD. One Decca album (Freire - Chopin Concerto) have watermarked. That's all

 

[Daverz]

I’m not using spotify but I guess 320 vorbis will probably sound the same as their 16/44 offering.
What I do know however, is 16/44 on Tidal, Deezer, and Qobuz are exactly same files. And they are not exact copies of 16/44 CDs. 24/96s on Qobuz are actually more like CD, because in most albums, that extra 8 bit is empty. And 24/96 is what label send to press on CD which converted to 16/44 in the process.

Where does this claim about 24/96 files on Qobuz originate? Qobuz is just using what they get from the distributors and labels. The quality depends on the label.

As for 16/44, I know that's not true. Many downloads do match a CD pressing exactly (as verified with CueTools). However some 16/44 downloads have no match in either the AccurateRip or CueTools databases. This doesn't mean anything nefarious; minimal differences can fool the verification. You would need to do an audio diff to see what the actual sample-for-sample differences are. In any case, Qobuz is just using whatever they are sent by the distributor or label, as are other FLAC download services.

 

[Sukie]

Where does this claim about 24/96 files on Qobuz originate? Qobuz is just using what they get from the distributors and labels. The quality depends on the label.

It seems to be part of a "Hi-Res upscaling conspiracy theory". I'm aware that this has happened in the past - can't find the reference at present. But, as you say, Qobuz stream what they're given by the labels.

Whether or not we need Hi-Res is, of course, another matter.

 

[jhaider]

It would be terrible like Tidal. Tidal uses Dolby digital + for its dolby atmos.

“Terrible?” Ok, whatever.

I’d personally rather have real multichannel rather than pointless and irrelevant specs on 2 channel

 

[dkinric]

Then why are they making the move to lossless?

They've either spotted a gap in the market, or (more likely) see it as an opportunity to nullify the potential threat of rivals. It's true that Amazon is likely to be at the top of that list, but the likes of Tidal and Qobuz are not on a particularly secure financial footing to start with.

Having said this, Qobuz previously reported that the launch of Amazon HD was actually good for their business, so who knows?

Good questions, my thinking is they can cement their market share as lossless is one of the only "benefits" they don't offer that rivals do. I've been using Roon to manage Tidal and Qobuz lossless and hi-rez, simply for lossless on my home setup. I think they can position it to not only get back "fringe" customers like me, but create a higher priced tier.
Although I will readily concede I likely could not hear a difference between these and Spotify, I still want lossless due to peace of mind and my silly audiophile biases.
I really like Spotify for it's music suggestions, app and catalog, and will be dropping Tidal, Qobuz and Roon, saving me much money. I will miss Roon, but the Spotify app is good enough (100% streaming for me, no local media).

 

[cany89]

Where does this claim about 24/96 files on Qobuz originate? Qobuz is just using what they get from the distributors and labels. The quality depends on the label.

As for 16/44, I know that's not true. Many downloads do match a CD pressing exactly (as verified with CueTools). However some 16/44 downloads have no match in either the AccurateRip or CueTools databases. This doesn't mean anything nefarious; minimal differences can fool the verification. You would need to do an audio diff to see what the actual sample-for-sample differences are. In any case, Qobuz is just using whatever they are sent by the distributor or label, as are other FLAC download services.

Just had a chat with guys from major label in local hifi shop few days ago. They talked about all the process, what they deliver, what specs Tidal/Qobuz wants etc. I remember they underlined the fact that - at least for their music - the track they send to Tidal/Qobuz for 16/44 is not the exact copy of the track they send for CD... I can try to reach them and verify what exactly the differences but I think it’s not really important anyway.

Re dynamics:
What’s more important for sound quality is actually the fact that loudness and modern mastering ruined the dynamic sound and most of the time - unless it’s something like Steven Wilson’s remasters etc. - you need to find old mastering for most of the albums. So I usually buy old cds and rip them. And just listen to whatever version Qobuz have if I don’t have the cd. But most of the time, CD or my flac version sounds better - to my ear - because it’s not compressed garbage remasters. And I usually check the dynamics at this website: http://dr.loudness-war.info/ Ofc, there are compressed modern sounds that’s really good too. Like the last album of Bruno Mars, which sounds amazing.

 

[Sal1950]

“Terrible?” Ok, whatever.

I’d personally rather have real multichannel rather than pointless and irrelevant specs on 2 channel

J, have you tried either of the Atmos systems on Tidal or Amazon? Have they worked for you?
They both include some kind of hurdle like needing some proprietary hardware or no Linux builds.
At least Spotify offers a Linux build of their desktop app and I'm hoping for the best with their new lossless app.
Maybe soon to keep up with the competition they will go Atmos also, too much to hope for I think.
Anyway just wondering how any existing multich streaming is working for you.

 

[Soniclife]

I remember they underlined the fact that - at least for their music - the track they send to Tidal/Qobuz for 16/44 is not the exact copy of the track they send for CD... I can try to reach them and verify what exactly the differences but I think it’s not really important anyway.

I'd like to know what they are doing, it sounds like adding watermarks, the lossless services are bit perfect to what they are sent, same as CD is, the problem is all upstream of the services, lossless or lossy.

 

[jhaider]

J, have you tried either of the Atmos systems on Tidal or Amazon? Have they worked for you?.

We stream Atmos on Tidal though an AppleTV 4K. It just works.

Amazon offers multichannel music streaming? I was not aware! I need to check that out.

 

[ThatM1key]

For multichannel people, this what Tidal uses.

 

[jhaider]

For multichannel people, this what Tidal uses.

View attachment 114445

Point? Are we supposed to care?

 

[ThatM1key]

Point? Are we supposed to care?

Its lossy

 

[jhaider]

Its lossy

Same questions as previous.

 

[Chrispy]

I'd be stoked if Spotify would do multich. I might have to trial Tidal and see what they have in that regard....

 

[SKBubba]

After paying for a month of Spotify today to reactivate my my account and take a look at their apps, etc., and canceling it all after about a half an hour, my conclusions are:

Spotify sound quality is sketchy, and won’t improve with lossless because of technical reasons and weirdness. Apps are a hot mess, and sort of incomprehensible. Their “AI” is better than all the rest for recommendations, discovery, playlists, etc., including Roon, but at what cost?

They are similar to Amazon. Just checking off a box, with no concept, care, or plan for catering to serious music listeners. They are all about earbuds, social features, memes and the like.

Roon+Qobuz is the best sound quality, and has adequate discovery if using Roon, (as long as you don’t use Roon Radio, which is fubar).

Tidal apps are way better than Spotify, and have adequate discovery/playlist features (better than Roon, actually).

So anyway, despite my initial interest in Spotify’s big announcement, I now conclude it’s a meh, or worse, a grift.

I just hope Roon, Qobuz and Tidal can survive. They probably will, at least in the short term, because your typical Spotify user doesn’t care about any of the above

 

[Sal1950]

Amazon offers multichannel music streaming? I was not aware! I need to check that out.

https://www.dolby.com/experience/amazon-music-hd/amazon-music-hd-how-to/
AHHH ya, you have to use a Echo speaker to get it. I guess that's not really multich.

 

[Chrispy]

After paying for a month of Spotify today to reactivate my my account and take a look at their apps, etc., and canceling it all after about a half an hour, my conclusions are:

Spotify sound quality is sketchy, and won’t improve with lossless because of technical reasons and weirdness. Apps are a hot mess, and sort of incomprehensible. Their “AI” is better than all the rest for recommendations, discovery, playlists, etc., including Roon, but at what cost?

They are similar to Amazon. Just checking off a box, with no concept, care, or plan for catering to serious music listeners. They are all about earbuds, social features, memes and the like.

Roon+Qobuz is the best sound quality, and has adequate discovery if using Roon, (as long as you don’t use Roon Radio, which is fubar).

Tidal apps are way better than Spotify, and have adequate discovery/playlist features (better than Roon, actually).

So anyway, despite my initial interest in Spotify’s big announcement, I now conclude it’s a meh, or worse, a grift.

I just hope Roon, Qobuz and Tidal can survive. They probably will, at least in the short term, because your typical Spotify user doesn’t care about any of the above

You trialled the new cd level service? How are Tidal apps superior and on what gear? Serious music listeners means what particularly?

 

[Sal1950]

Amazon offers multichannel music streaming? I was not aware! I need to check that out.

So does Qobuz, minimally. But it only works in conbination with Roon. At least that was the last I heard from Kal Rubinson
https://play.qobuz.com/playlist/3898001