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Spotify HiFi (finally) Coming Soon?

Galliardist

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Just focusing on Spotify is probably unfair, it is something that impacts the entire streaming industry. There may be lessons to be learned in music streaming from the video streaming industry, where instead of just recycling stuff you can get everywhere, you have some exclusive and desirable content. Amazon and Netflix and AppleTV bankroll original content, they are producers on top of streaming stuff you can get everywhere. The music streaming services dont do it. They just reuse existing stuff. And the stuff is subject to sudden licensing changes (which is also true with video streaming services, I have paidnfor stuff on Amazon Prime that then disappears).

The whole cry-me-a-river stuff about artists claiming they dont get paid (enough) is of zero interest to me. Artists dont tell my employer to pay me more, I made the adult decision to sign a contract and that's that. And if I am unhappy I negotiate or go elsewhere or consult on my own.

The layoffs may indicate Spotify is trying to focus, which I hope they do. They should keep focusing on content (it is pretty good but could be even better), and better usability (their two separate queues stuff and other things make zero sense to anyone, even their own support staff).
The reason for concentrating on Spotify is its scale and reach. Spotify has invested heavily to become a major player in a service that doesn't have much in the way of added value and is not a base for adding on additional services and sales. Spotify doesn't have an Alexa to be the 100% default to. It doesn't sell the hardware you play on. Rival services have effectively similar size catalogues and the same new product. And its customers only have so many hours in the day to listen - and often these days people listen to playlists when driving, for example, so are not using any wonderful interface or "radio" where you can influence what they listen to.

Effectively, it's a massive expenditure to produce a dead end. Even if you do provide great ways for people to discover new artists or favourite music to keep them listening, you still only have so many hours in the day when they will. And the monthly fee model makes it even worse in a way, because if you get them to listen more, you have to pay out more money. Your ideal customer pays to hear a small amount of music on the highest tier of payment.

As for exclusive and desirable content, does that still work? Netflix and Amazon are already laying off staff and reducing the quality of their exclusive product. What's more, people hate paying seven services to watch eight popular series, and on top of that some of those popular series are flops that annoy the customer base further.

Regarding the payment to artists, I don't take too much notice of the moaning, but at the same time if an artist gets more money because I use one service rather than another, that is still a factor in my choice. I do know several of the artists I stream regularly, and either that or a connection made in some other way such as social media seems to drive a lot of what people listen to these days, outside of the few big stars. So do you want to pay your mate a third of the money, when paying the streaming service far less than a third more at the time? What interests me though is that the same people who make a fuss about what Spotify pays per play, will still insist on ad blocking YouTube and denying the same artists there. I'm also pretty certain that Spotify et al have never produced their own new megastar and YouTube has done that, so in a way it's more important.

I suspect that music streaming will eventually be purely a part of a larger offering from major players, and that Spotify as a large independent service is an anomaly.

It will end up sold to somebody like Meta who don't yet have a music streaming offering. The advantage it has is the data it has about its users, and what they have provided in terms of their playlists and profiles that they won't want to lose or have to recreate or export to a different service. That itself is more value to a broader service than Spotify itself, though.
 

Galliardist

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What's the issue with Spotify and why can't they implement this already?
Most likely they can. They don't need to. They have a large active base of subscribers compared to the smaller services like Tidal and Qobuz, and they don't have the spare bandwidth of Apple or Amazon.

It costs more to stream FLAC. They'd have to sack even more of their staff to pay for it, or charge users more than their rivals.
 

Jimbob54

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In the grand scheme, Spotify going lossless is neither here nor there. I suspect this is the golden age of streaming given you can get high quality all you can eat for around £10 a month- less than the price of a single new CD. Pick your poison in terms of the service you use- no single one fulfils all my needs but none are too far off either.

I cant believe (largely for reasons well articulated in #21 above) that things can only change going forwards- either bundling in stuff a hardcore music lover doesnt want (podcasts / audiobook) and forcing a higher price point or simply a market wide price hike.

I cant believe more than a very small % of existing Spotify subs would pay a significant premium over the price of normal sub for lossless .

Amazon scrapped that idea early on

I'd be interested how the Tidal subs base splits between lossless Hifi and the Hi re tier and previously the lossy tier. My guess there is that the majority go for the priciest tier due to the cache of "ultimate" quality. I doubt very much that would happen for the Spotify user base and lossless.
 

StevenEleven

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I was just streaming on Spotify from my iPad and I got something new for me on the interface, a tune that was a “sponsored recommendation.” That kind of irritated me, since I already pay a family subscription rate. The tune or station algorithms can already get pretty unimaginative and stuck in a rut for my taste. The last thing I need is sponsored stuff polluting the interface and the algorithms.

I really, really, really don’t care if they stream lossless or CD or master quality or not. I kind of prefer the lossy compression because it lowers the data stream rate needed when I am out and about streaming on cellular data.

I’m in the same boat as some others, Spotify has for a very long time been the music streaming platform for a family of 5 so I would cause a lot of heartache if I cancelled it.

I have Apple, Amazon, Youtube Music all as part of big-tech packages, they are all good. Youtube Music is the one that is not really replaceable for me because of the out of print and concert and historical music that you can find that folks put up on Youtube.

So Tidal and Qobuz really pay the artists more? I would genuinely like to know.
 
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Sal1950

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I was just streaming on Spotify from my iPad and I got something new for me on the interface, a tune that was a “sponsored recommendation.”
Please explain, what is a "sponsored recommendation"?
 

StevenEleven

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Please explain, what is a "sponsored recommendation"?
It was a song that apparently was recommended based on some commercial entity having paid money to have it presented front and center. Kind of like a Google or Amazon sponsored search result.
 

Sal1950

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It was a song that apparently was recommended based on some commercial entity having paid money to have it presented front and center. Kind of like a Google or Amazon sponsored search result.
Back in the 50-60s that was known as Payola. LOL ;)

But thanks, I thought it might be something they wanted an "extra charge" for beyond your monthly service fee.
 

Sal1950

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Tidal pays artists 4x more per stream than Spotify, but Spotify are not the worst. Qobuz are not on this chart, but I believe they pay
I'm not sure I would trust those numbers.
Something kind of stinks that one of the smallest streamers by subscriber numbers can afford to pay almost 10x as much as nearly 5 others on that list? Call me skeptical as to the big picture. ;)
 

holdingpants01

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Locally, recently the was a price hike on spotify, which is still only lossy, while at the same time there was a price drop on tidal, which now includes lossless, high res and atmos on the base plan. It's about 5€ for individual sub, kind of amazing and no brainer, I cancelled my spotify subscription
 

holdingpants01

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I kind of prefer the lossy compression because it lowers the data stream rate needed when I am out and about streaming on cellular data.
That's a non issue, as there is already different quality setting for wifi and cell data, makes sense as the music is listened on the go with lossy bluetooth headphones or in a car, where it really doesn't matter with all the noise around (not that I can hear any difference anyway)
 

Keith_W

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I'm not sure I would trust those numbers.
Something kind of stinks that one of the smallest streamers by subscriber numbers can afford to pay almost 10x as much as nearly 5 others on that list? Call me skeptical as to the big picture. ;)

Sure Sal, you can be skeptical. But it is really easy to do a Google search and see what other publications are saying:

- Ditto Music - "On average, TIDAL pays out around $0.013 per stream in 2023 [...] Spotify pays artists between $0.003 - $0.005 per stream on average, with just under 23,000 streams of your tracks needed to recieve $100 in payment. In 2023, Apple Music pays artists $0.01 per stream on average - so essentially equalling 1 penny earned per stream."

- Sound Guys - shows a chart. Not quite 5x of Spotify, but slightly less than 3x.

- Information is Beautiful - shows a chart confirming Spotify pays $0.0044 per stream compared to Tidal at $0.0125 (i.e. 1/3), but also shows that Spotify's larger market size means artists earn more because Spotify gets more streams than Tidal.

- Producer Hive - "On average, Tidal pays $0.01 per stream, which is way above the $0.003/0.005 offered by Spotify."

I see no reason to be skeptical, unless you believe that there is some conspiracy and these publications are all in collusion.
 

Scoobz1

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Locally, recently the was a price hike on spotify, which is still only lossy, while at the same time there was a price drop on tidal, which now includes lossless, high res and atmos on the base plan. It's about 5€ for individual sub, kind of amazing and no brainer, I cancelled my spotify subscription
Really twice that here UK if you are not a student ...
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Sal1950

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I see no reason to be skeptical, unless you believe that there is some conspiracy and these publications are all in collusion.
I really don't know but something just doesn't seem copesthetic to me?
Can we get some evidence for an end user "musician"?
It just doesn't add up that the 6 of the 7 are paying within a small variation of the same amount and Tidal is so generous?
But it's not unknown for folks in this industry to put out BS.
If that's really the case hooray for them.
 

holdingpants01

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Can we get some evidence for an end user "musician"?
Musicians are the last in the line to ever receive any money from any streaming, the only worthwhile data would be from major label insiders, but I'm sure none would want, care or even be able to share it
 
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Loooop

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I'd be interested how the Tidal subs base splits between lossless Hifi and the Hi re tier and previously the lossy tier. My guess there is that the majority go for the priciest tier due to the cache of "ultimate" quality. I doubt very much that would happen for the Spotify user base and lossless.
Since April, the two Tidal tariff plans no longer exist. Now there is a single tariff plan which, at the price of the previous lower one (€16,99/month in Italy, family version for up to 6 users) that I had chosen, offers high resolution music.
I am very happy with the decision made by Tidal, although I am not at all convinced that there are audible differences between high resolution music and CD quality music.
 

AdamG

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Seven years and counting. Multiple launch announcements and customer baiting at historic levels. This article is from Jan 2022 and documents 5 years of unfulfilled promises and it’s now over 2 years old adding to a 7+ year delay to promises made 2017.

 

Jimbob54

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Since April, the two Tidal tariff plans no longer exist. Now there is a single tariff plan which, at the price of the previous lower one (€16,99/month in Italy, family version for up to 6 users) that I had chosen, offers high resolution music.
I am very happy with the decision made by Tidal, although I am not at all convinced that there are audible differences between high resolution music and CD quality music.
Probably an inevtable move from Tidal. Other than Spotify the other services were offering higher than 16/44 for less than the tidal high res tier. Not a great place for a relatively niche service to be.

Which makes Spotifys (maybe) move to move into the higher price bracket for lossless even dafter. Though it looks like if it happens it will be lossless plus other bolt ons that nobody really needs to justify the price
 

Loooop

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At least in Italy, Tidal prices are now identical to those of Apple Music. Amazon Music family costs one euro more per month while Qobuz is much more expensive (the family subscription with high resolution music costs €29.16/month, with the additional condition that it is paid in a single payment for an entire year) .
I expect Qobuz will also lower its fees soon, like Tidal did.
 
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