Speakers with adjustable digital crossover

[radix]

In theory one could do it, in practice the interface to do so is locked on speakers sold to customers.

The Hypex filter designer is also not for the feint of heart. It's not simple, like the minidsp DIRAC interface (and some would not call that simple either).

 

[sigbergaudio]

The Hypex filter designer is also not for the feint of heart. It's not simple, like the minidsp DIRAC interface (and some would not call that simple either).

I would also not be interested in having our brand on speakers that someone else have tuned. That would easily lead to people getting the wrong impression of the speakers and the brand. I can picture lots of people with limited competence trying to re-do the crossovers and then show it off to their friends. Doesn't sound like a great idea for anyone involved.

 

[Mnyb]

There are plate amps from hypex for example . Or external filters one can use with any amp , not uncommon in professional settings . Some folks on the forum DIY with such solutions.

But commercial ready made speakers? Never seen ? , there are very few correct filters for a given set of drivers so I get why ?

Some speakers have different sound profiles with slightly different tunings to choose from or other eq settings accessible to users like burchart for example ? Is that what asked for ?

 

[fpitas]

*Perhaps* the OP is simply asking for shelving control on the drivers? I hope.

 

[Mnyb]

*Perhaps* the OP is simply asking for shelving control on the drivers? I hope.

A great deal of actives to many to name has some shelving for tweeter and midrange and some settings for boundary

 

[617]

I would also not be interested in having our brand on speakers that someone else have tuned. That would easily lead to people getting the wrong impression of the speakers and the brand. I can picture lots of people with limited competence trying to re-do the crossovers and then show it off to their friends. Doesn't sound like a great idea for anyone involved.

Just out of curiosity, in your active speakers do you put a cap in front of the tweeter?

 

[sigbergaudio]

Just out of curiosity, in your active speakers do you put a cap in front of the tweeter?

That was considered during the development/design phase but since abandoned, so no - it's only protected by the digital filter.

 

[sigbergaudio]

*Perhaps* the OP is simply asking for shelving control on the drivers? I hope.

That we do have. User configurable 9-band PEQ including shelf filters.

 

[HooStat]

That was considered during the development/design phase but since abandoned, so no - it's only protected by the digital filter.

It it hard to swap out a tweeter in the event of a disaster? Again, just curious.

 

[sigbergaudio]

It it hard to swap out a tweeter in the event of a disaster? Again, just curious.

You'd typically replace the entire coax driver, and no that is not difficult.

Machine screws in metal inserts for the driver (so no risk of damaging the cabinet) and spades / plugs for the wiring (so no soldering).

Everything is designed to be serviceable and replaceable to counter the notion that one has to throw away the entire thing if something goes wrong with an active speaker. Not true.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Would also like to add that it's an extremely unlikely scenario.

During development we probably updated and adjusted these filters several hundred times, and even then it have never failed. And for a customer it will be preloaded and static, no reason it should ever fail.

The output that can be sent to each driver is also actively limited to prevent overload.

Finally the default of these DSP modules is no sound. So if the configuration should be erased somehow it won't output full frequency, it won't output anything at all.

 

[Dan]

You'll shoot your eye out, kid!

 

[sarumbear]

What speakers have adjustable digital crossover between their drivers? I know KEF LS50 Wireless II and LS60 Wireless have adjustable digital crossover between the speaker and an external subwoofer, but not between the drivers inside the speaker.

JBL M2

 

[YSC]

There are plate amps from hypex for example . Or external filters one can use with any amp , not uncommon in professional settings . Some folks on the forum DIY with such solutions.

But commercial ready made speakers? Never seen ? , there are very few correct filters for a given set of drivers so I get why ?

Some speakers have different sound profiles with slightly different tunings to choose from or other eq settings accessible to users like burchart for example ? Is that what asked for ?

I would guess it would be a disaster, say just keeping the crossover point but with different roll off slopes, you ended up get a weird bump or null easily, shifting x-over point might make one or both drivers unhappy at some range and distorts like hell, on the plus side though if the is the user configurable filters are digital, you could download/backup the original filters after the fun (or pain) after the messing around trial

 

[quiltix]

I was just curious to hear how changing the crossover between the drivers would affect the sound, and I wanted to have the ability to change back to stock settings if I did not like the sound. Burchard's tunings look interesting.

I wonder why the functionality to change the crossover between woofer and subwoofer in two devices is common, while the functionality to change the crossover between tweeter and woofer in one device is not. Is it just that much more difficult to dial in the crossover correctly at high frequencies?

 

[617]

I was just curious to hear how changing the crossover between the drivers would affect the sound, and I wanted to have the ability to change back to stock settings if I did not like the sound. Burchard's tunings look interesting.

I wonder why the functionality to change the crossover between woofer and subwoofer in two devices is common, while the functionality to change the crossover between tweeter and woofer in one device is not. Is it just that much more difficult to dial in the crossover correctly at high frequencies?

This is a complicated subject but basically at mid-high frequencies, the drivers are carefully knit together, with a lot of things being optimized at once. Off axis response, on axis response, power handling of the tweeter, break-up of the woofer and so forth. If drivers are carefully chosen, there is definitely some flexibility - a robust tweeter in a waveguide can play higher or lower, and a really wide bandwidth small midwoofer mated perfectly can do the same, but the goals for the shape of the response in that region are the same regardless of crossover frequency or slope - a smooth transition between the spatial responses of the two drivers while protecting the tweeter from too much bass, and preventing too much high frequency going to a woofer that may have nasty resonances.

There is definitely something to be said for adjustability in the over-all tonality of a speaker (shelving filters do this well - or adjusting the gain of a mid / bass / tweeter separately) but the crossover region is a big part of what speaker engineering is, and it's not something to be messed with.

In the days before 3d measurements were popular with hobbyists, there was a lot of discussion about the sound of crossover slopes and types. However, it is fairly obvious to most designers nowadays that the differences in the sound have to do with different sets of compromises between mismatched drivers - most honestly large woofers mated to small tweeters. Changing the crossover slope was really just making a more-or-less uneven response off axis, which is where the 'sound' of the crossover came from. In extreme cases, the sound also comes from ringing in the woofer being less attenuated, or tweeter distortion.

There was a DIY project here which had many prototype crossovers. Since the drivers were state-of-the-art units, there were a lot of crossover points and slopes that worked well, but my impression from the discussion was the differences in sound were subtle. To paraphrase Tolstoy, all happy crossovers are alike, but bad crossovers can be bad in many different ways.

 

[YSC]

I was just curious to hear how changing the crossover between the drivers would affect the sound, and I wanted to have the ability to change back to stock settings if I did not like the sound. Burchard's tunings look interesting.

I wonder why the functionality to change the crossover between woofer and subwoofer in two devices is common, while the functionality to change the crossover between tweeter and woofer in one device is not. Is it just that much more difficult to dial in the crossover correctly at high frequencies?

in my very primitave understanding, the sub vs main speaker cross over varies since you would want the sub to fill in the missing frequencies the mains are not capable to produce with enough SPL, and at the low bass below ~80hz our ears are not good at identifying the location of the sound source, so you see the usual cross over range are 50-80hz, but there are freedom of changing since the main speakers may/maynot be tuned for their bass dropp off frequency, so the sub have to take that into account and not over boosting say 40-80hz. while higher cross over can be done but you have to put the each sub in the same spot as your mains to not make the sound obviously coming from another spot. that's why there are usually a few or more degree of freedom to let user decide what their main speaker is capable of and move the sub around.

While for a single speaker, since the drivers are mounted in fixed point and are known drivers with same performance (spec), so the optimal crossover is pretty much set and decided by the engineer crunching the driver spec and data, and since you won't have your woofer/tweeter of choice changing by the user, and the cabinet is fixed, you won't need to change the crossover frequency and slope to cater with those variables, hence it's 99% of the time locked.

 

[gnarly]

Sub to main xover frequency adjustment is often found in prosound, live sound, rigs. Main reason being how much bass, and/or SPL is needed..
The higher the xover frequency to the main speaker, the higher the system SPL capability, due to relieving the main speaker of excessive lower frequency excursion.

Same principal applies to home gear, so sub to main xover adjustment is helpful (if properly integrated)

I doubt you will ever find a finished, manufactured speaker, with adjustable xover points above sub to main.
The xover points for those drivers, or rather xover ranges, aren't that wide to begin with, and hopefully the manufacturer optimized them for on and off axis response, as well as driver protection, and maximum linear SPL.

Without good on and off axis measurements, changing xover frequency's of manufactured speakers is most likely a bad idea.


Now if you're into DIY, there's a lot more room to maneuver...if you built that room into the acoustic design.
If anybody cares, lemme know and I'll post a current project that allows considerable room to change xover points, even to the point of being able to skip driver sections.