Sokel
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Probably because it has EQ,high-pass filters,Room correction of some kind,etc.
I had a look and it looks basic though.
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Recommendations needed for a replacement for a miniDSP active crossover
- Thread starter Old Hi-Fi Guy
- Start date
I had a look and it looks basic though.
When the drivers are vertically separated there are valid reasons to make the crossover slopes asymmetric and to consider delaying the lower driver, as part of balancing the directivity.
Hi fluid, if by directivity you mean horizontal directivity, I think asymmetric slopes and delaying the lower drivers,
reflect that complementary acoustic summations cannot be achieved with the physical driver/speaker construction, and I think using those techniques gives the best/optimal compromise.
I prefer to rethink the physical design to achieve better acoustic complementary summations..
If you mean vertical directivity, or what I think of as lobe/beam steering...then yeah, but for only frequencies spanning xover ranges.
And I also wonder why any such steering is needed...why not just point/tilt speaker towards listener veristically on-ax,.... especially with home audio.
What are you thinkin ?
Not normally Horizontal as that is dictated much more by the drivers and cabinet or waveguide.
Vertical directivity is what I mean as it can have a significant part to play in the overall DI of a speaker. When there is vertical separation there will be lobes/nulls, and yes asymmetry and delay can steer them to more favourable positions.
Tilting a speaker does much more than put the listener in the main lobe, it changes the phase relationship between drivers and alters the reflection pattern, it might be a good choice or not.
Even tilting the speakers response down will stop the crossovers from being completely complementary.
I was mainly trying to point out that it is not incorrect to have crossovers that are not complementary, there are valid reasons to pick that compromise.
As to the main topic I really like Jriver and would not be without it in my own setup. I use the Jremote2 app on Android as a remote control. You can use it to control playback/volume, scroll through your music etc. One of the best things Jriver does is good volume levelling so there is rarely any need to change the volume between tracks and albums other than you want to turn it up or down for pleasure.
The MiniDSP flex 8 is probably the simplest solution, as setting up an active crossover through Jriver is not for everyone. The 4x10 was one of the first MiniDSP products and they seem to have upped their game quite a lot since then, so I would have less concerns about the reliability of it. There is really very few options in the hardware DSP arena.
As to the single ended outputs, just make yourself some pseudo balanced cables. Tom has a page describing it
https://neurochrome.com/pages/pseudo-differential-cable
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OP
- Thread Starter
- #106
I'm keeping JRiver in reserve at the moment. EKIO may improve the usability, but my first choice would be to reduce my reliance on a PC. The Flex Eight may be the simple solution. It's performance may be an improvement over the 4x10HD and the smaller size is a bonus, but the company declined to tell me whether it used the same encoder as the 4x10. I've shipped my 4x10 back to them; it wasn't cheap and it will take a long time with no indication of a happy ending. I already have a pair of pseudo balanced cables - I'm using them to connect my Squeezebox's analogue outputs to my Neurochrome amp so that I can drive a different pair of speakers which have passive crossovers. At least I have an alternative system to fall back on while I'm shopping around.
Ok good, talking vertical.
Here's what i don't get about steering lobes/nulls. They are all about lobes/nulls as within crossover summation regions...all frequencies outside those regions are unaffected.
So pick your lobe/null pattern poison for the frequencies of interest, and know what angle you plan to use your speaker. Otherwise, it seems all immaterial.
If you mean electrically complementary, 100% agree.
If you mean acoustically complementary, 100% disagree.
I love J-River ....got 3 or their inukes with remote apps nearly a decade ago. But now just use J-River for a library streamer at to all PC locations via Dante.
I can see it being a near perfect app for convolution processing, but don't see it worth pursuing to work with tradition IIR processing and delays, etc. Too rudimentary last I saw.
Has it the processing grown up since i last looked? (i'm within a year current version but haven't looked at its processing)
Yep. the options are crazily spars imo. Stupid exoctic expensive, or nearly primitive.
And then there's q-sys....that does so much, and at least used is comparatively downright cheap.
Heck, maybe cheap at even at full stupid MSRP new. Puts all other options to shame imho.
I dunno, why bother with that... I say ditch unbalanced gear, unless situation begs.
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That doesn't surprise me, but as it's clear we are not really discussing the same thing it doesn't matter. Trying to change your mind requires way too much time and effort. I'm not trying to be rude just pragmatic.
Jriver has access to VST plugins, so if there is a plugin that can do the processing so can Jriver, when combined with Metaplugin there really is not anything currently available that cannot be done. There is also stuff like BEQ designer that was mentioned above.
Becuase it is simple and provides most of the benefits of a fully balanced line. The important part is the differential input to the amp. Most gear processes internally single ended with conversions up and down anyway.
The measured performane of the Flex 8 is a real step up from the 4x10, I personally quite like ESS DAC's. I'm not sure what you mean by encoder but the Flex 8 is quite different, using a SHARC DSP and XMOS control chip. The internal images have the mainboard look much simpler and more straight forward. Reliability is hard to quantify, very few devices seem built to last anymore. There really is almost nothing in this market segment between MiniDSP and professional solutions like Q-SYS.
The newer units have IR remote control so there would be no need to use the encoder if you don't want to.
The only other non PC option that I know of is the t.racks processors from Thomann in Germany. They deliver all over the world and shipping is usually quite reasonable. I know somone who has the FIR version and quite likes it.
https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_t.racks_dsp_408.htm#bewertung
It’s this one:
Only about 86 SINAD though, so not super Hifi. For the money, I’d go with the Flex 8.
Their datasheet, the one I linked.
OK you converted the 0.005% THD to -86dB. I thought maybe there was a test I missed. This is pretty standard for previous generation audio interfaces. The Q-SYS Core 110f is 0.003% -90dB. Good enough to not sound bad but the newer generation interfaces and DSP's have moved this up a couple of notches.
JeremyFife
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Just a thought: adding a turntable/analogue source complicates things.
Have you considered adding a WiiM Pro Plus just for the analogue side? Perfectly adequate ADC, PEQ filters (only 4, but good enough for a basic EQ). Either feed that directly to amp/speakers or plug it back into your digital solution.
... leaves you free to work on the digital world.
Have you considered adding a WiiM Pro Plus just for the analogue side? Perfectly adequate ADC, PEQ filters (only 4, but good enough for a basic EQ). Either feed that directly to amp/speakers or plug it back into your digital solution.
... leaves you free to work on the digital world.
That’s the problem: he doesn’t have a digital solution
Fair enough.
I know that commercial designs often employ lobe steering in speakers high on walls radiating downward, to keep sound off the ceiling.
And that some home audio designs employ 3rd order xovers or such, to steer the lobe upward off the floor.
I also realize acoustically complementary means to a particular axis.
All that said, without a specific steering intent, I can't see how delays should be anything other than distance between acoustic centers.
That has become ever more evident as lobing ranges have decreased using steeper and steeper xovers (lin phase).
And also more evident with speaker designs that have driver spacings that allow acoustically commentary summation throughout the xover region.
I've found if for whatever xover strategy I try, IIR or FIR,.... if the delays don't stay fixed right around the distance differences in physical acoustic centers, I've made a boo-boo somewhere with what I'm trying.
Not trying to change your mind either.....just communicating
Thanks, makes sense about anything is possible with VSTs
My big reason for balanced is I never get hum or noise problems with it....where as I occasionally have problems with unbalanced.
I sometimes A/B my home audio gear against my DIY builds, using qsys running both speakers setups.
Similar to the "pseudo-balanced" RCA link you gave....this has caused no problems yet, connecting any unbalanced sources or amps.
Other than when making changes to a qsys design schematic. (which turns off the processor for a moment).
Balanced amps don't care if the processor is down.....unbalanced amps are known to bitch
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I'm so convinced speakers, room, speaker processing in terms of how well executed, and source material ..........
each of which so vastly swamp SINAD...... and then put all together, yikes.........well, I literally never look at SINAD.
I guess I'm just a low-fi dude !
Well, yes, probably it’s going to be inaudible as long as SNR is plenty (which in this case, it seems to be). Still, I’d like to have THD+N around 100 dB at least. Besides, the flex 8 is only marginally more expensive, so why not go for it.
