Sony WH-1000XM5 - best DAC / AMP?

[silver-matter]

For my use case noise cancellation is the most important feature and the WH-1000XM5's noise cancellation, especially at frequencies <100 hz, is second to none. Since nothing else really competes with the XM5's for noise cancellation I'm happy to spend more than a few bucks trying to get the most sound quality out of them.

So what would be the best dac / amp to use with the Sony XM5 (turned on, wired mode, using Oratory1990 EQ)?

I currently have a DX3 Pro+ and the XM5 definitely can get much louder on my DX3 Pro+ than when I'm running wired connected to a mobile device or pc output and this gives me a lot more headroom for EQ, but I haven't had time for any real volume matched sound quality testing. I also don't have any other dedicated dac / amps to compare the DX3 Pro+ to and it's unclear to me whether I'm actually bypassing the XM5's integrated dac / amp or just giving the XM5's integrated dac / amp a bit more power to work with.

 

[bodhi]

You are not going to get better sound through external DAC/Amp, why would you?

Even if you would, the Sony is not especially good headphone from frequency response point of view, especially compared to many wired headphones costing way less. They are pretty good though for the actual use case: wireless, comfortable, noise cancelling headphone.

 

[silver-matter]

You are not going to get better sound through external DAC/Amp, why would you?

Even if you would, the Sony is not especially good headphone from frequency response point of view, especially compared to many wired headphones costing way less. They are pretty good though for the actual use case: wireless, comfortable, noise cancelling headphone.

If it wasn't clear I fully understand there are plenty of wired headphones that sound better than the XM5 for less. I have a use case that requires the ANC capabilities of the XM5 so I'm looking to eke out as much sound quality from them as I can. The only thing that really comes close for isolation are Etymotic in-ears.

My experience with the XM5 so far has been that the combination of using the XM5 in wired mode with the headphones powered on and EQ applied via EqualizerAPO does wonders for their sound quality vs just using them wirelessly so I'm curious if there are any other ways to further improve the experience.

The XM5 has an integrated dac / amp where the primary design objectives are low power usage and portability. So you would imagine that a discreet solution designed for sound quality first could potentially allow you to get a bit more performance out of the XM5.

FWIW the Sony site lists the XM5's impedance as "48 ohm (1 kHz) (when connecting via the headphone cable with the unit turned on)".

 

[bevok]

The XM5's use their own amplifier and DAC when in noise cancelling mode (due to the DSP required) and there is no way to bypass this (different story using them in non ANC mode with 3.5mm input).

 

[silver-matter]

The XM5's use their own amplifier and DAC when in noise cancelling mode (due to the DSP required) and there is no way to bypass this (different story using them in non ANC mode with 3.5mm input).

Why do you think there are so many user reports of the XM5 sounding better in wired / powered on mode than wired / power off mode then? Or them having more volume headroom for EQ when wired? I don't have an angle here, just trying to understand my and others experiences.

Maybe running the XM5 in wired mode is allowing the integrated dac / amp to use more power than the battery focused wireless mode? Like the difference between running the integrated dac / amp in "power saver" mode vs "performance" mode?

100% possible that I'm totally wrong about all of this. That a headphone like the XM5 can accept an analogue input while powered off, an analogue input when powered on, a wired digital input (via usb-c) or a wireless digital input (via bluetooth with the quality of the codec used depending on the source) definitely adds a lot of room for confusion.

 

[RandomEar]

Why do you think there are so many user reports of the XM5 sounding better in wired / powered on mode than wired / power off mode then? Or them having more volume headroom for EQ when wired? I don't have an angle here, just trying to understand my and others experiences.

Because they sound different in wired mode, as the internal DAC/amp combo and the (to my knowledge) forced EQ that is applied by the internal electronics is bypassed. Whether different is better to you is a personal preference, but the ability to design your own EQ using EAPO in wired mode certainly gives you inifinitely more tuning options to suit your taste.

Maybe running the XM5 in wired mode is allowing the integrated dac / amp to use more power than the battery focused wireless mode? Like the difference between running the integrated dac / amp in "power saver" mode vs "performance" mode?

That poses the question: What performance could we gain here? What does "performance" mean to you? SPL? Distortion? Something else?

If you played music at the same volume level in wired vs. wireless mode and had roughly the same effective EQ (which will be difficult to tune, but that's another point), the headphone drivers would happily consume the same amount of power in both cases. Unless either amp is clipping or running out of power - which always affects the low end first - there is no "performance" to gain in this regard.

That being said, it's probably easy to find an external amp that has superior noise performance to the internal DAC/amp combo. If you can hear audible noise during silent sections of your music, you may gain more silence using an external amp.

Last relevant point would probably be distortion. I don't have any measurements for the XM-5 in particular, but the drivers themselves will generally dictate the distortion profile of any heaphone. Amps or - even more so - DACs have distortion levels orders of magnitude lower than those of transducers. So that point is most likely nothing to worry about.

100% possible that I'm totally wrong about all of this. That a headphone like the XM5 can accept an analogue input while powered off, an analogue input when powered on, a wired digital input (via usb-c) or a wireless digital input (via bluetooth with the quality of the codec used depending on the source) definitely adds a lot of room for confusion.

I'd assume that the internal DAC/amp combo and attached EQ are always active while the headphone is on and that the analogue input is digitized in that case. An external amp would therefore only become relevant if you turn off the headphone. ANC on the other hand can only be active when the headphone is on. Don't know if that may be important to you.

 

[delta76]

The XM5's use their own amplifier and DAC when in noise cancelling mode (due to the DSP required) and there is no way to bypass this (different story using them in non ANC mode with 3.5mm input).

Which sounds terrible.
You can probably EQ to tame the bass but Sony ANC headphones tend to be bass heavy

 

[silver-matter]

Which sounds terrible.
You can probably EQ to tame the bass but Sony ANC headphones tend to be bass heavy

The XM5 definitely need EQ to be listenable - currently using equalizerapo with Oratory1990 preset.

 

[silver-matter]

Because they sound different in wired mode, as the internal DAC/amp combo and the (to my knowledge) forced EQ that is applied by the internal electronics is bypassed. Whether different is better to you is a personal preference, but the ability to design your own EQ using EAPO in wired mode certainly gives you inifinitely more tuning options to suit your taste.

For clarity no one recommends using the XM5 in wired mode / powered off. So there isn't a use case where you'd intentionally bypass the integrated dac / amp entirely unless the batteries died somewhere where you only had the option to connect to the source via 3.5mm (ie. not usb-c). They lean extremely heavily on the integrated DSP and EQ isn't really an effective substitute here. The XM5 are meant to be used wireless / powered on or wired / powered on.

 

[ZolaIII]

For clarity no one recommends using the XM5 in wired mode / powered off. So there isn't a use case where you'd intentionally bypass the integrated dac / amp entirely unless the batteries died somewhere where you only had the option to connect to the source via 3.5mm (ie. not usb-c). They lean extremely heavily on the integrated DSP and EQ isn't really an effective substitute here. The XM5 are meant to be used wireless / powered on or wired / powered on.

In order for ANC to work signal needs to be in digital form and altered (noise removal) that's the name of the thing. As usually worst performing part is ADC it's better to skip it and use high quality (bitrate) LDAC. Regarding EQ do try Wavelet (Android) and you can import the Oratory1990 preset.

 

[DanTheMan]

I think Sony actually knows a thing or two about frequency response and targets. I'm 100% sure they know about Harman's headphone research and they just don't agree with it. It seems they are also familiar with the Harman luminaries' prior work on room response preferences and tune to it for headphones.

Not all of their IEMs are tuned that way, but many of them are to say they least even going back quite some time from their old hybrid flagships. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss their tuning. It's not what we are used to, but it's certainly easier to listen to over the long haul.

 

[Macmanuk]

Hi there I’m using Sony WH XM5 with the Bluetooth output of an WiiM pro and find it a very acceptable sound even though it is not a strictly audiophile wired set up. The Sony XM5 over ears are very versatile and may suit people without being 100% accurate and Bluetooth obviously being a lossy medium. The WiiM seems to give a good reliable signal which for Bluetooth must be a key factor.