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Sony SS-CS5 bookshelf speaker (review by Erin)

sarumbear

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And just to close the circle on this, here's a plot of the raw woofer response (no filter) in the stock cabinet, and then with 3" wings added to each side.

View attachment 172953


View attachment 172954
Very interesting. I have never seen such a 2Pi to 4Pi conversion effect. It should be a step of 6dB with a slope of around 3dB/Oct. Your measurement doesn't show that. Possibly because the baffle extension is too small but why would it reduce the peak at around 2kHz? I don't have an answer to that. I wish I had.

You sir, have demonstrated me something that I do not understand. I am all ears if you can explain the physics behind this.
 
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Dennis Murphy

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Very interesting. I have never seen such a steep 2Pi to 4Pi conversion effect. It should be a step of 6dB with a slope of around 3dB/Oct. Your measurement doesn't show that. Maybe that is because the baffle extension is too small but why would it reduce the peak at around 2kHz? I don't have an answer. I wish I had.

You sir, have demonstrated me something that I do not understand. I am all ears if you can explain the physics behind this.
There's a lot going on here--not just the baffle step. And on a very narrow baffle such as this, the baffle step starts quite late and gets confounded with other response irregularities. There are a lot of trees, but the forest is that the baffle is largely accountable for the response irregularities you're seeing with the stock crossover and cabinet. The cabinet resonance may also be contributing and might be discernible with the high-resolution Klippel machine, but just damping the cabinet won't get rid of most of the problem.
 

sarumbear

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There's a lot going on here--not just the baffle step. And on a very narrow baffle such as this, the baffle step starts quite late and gets confounded with other response irregularities. There are a lot of trees, but the forest is that the baffle is largely accountable for the response irregularities you're seeing with the stock crossover and cabinet. The cabinet resonance may also be contributing and might be discernible with the high-resolution Klippel machine, but just damping the cabinet won't get rid of most of the problem.
I have superimposed your modified baffle FR (red) with the original one. It is now easier to see how your baffles worked. I still cannot explain why there is reduction in the peak but the difference is to small to explain by a simple chart comparison.

Once again, thank you for making me realise that a small baffle extension at such high frequency will make such a big difference.

diff.png


PS. I have not suggested enclosure damping. I suggested electrical filtering.
 
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Dennis Murphy

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I have superimposed your modified baffle FR (red) with the original one. It is now easier to see how your baffles worked. I still cannot explain why there is reduction in the peak but the difference is to small to explain by a simple chart comparison.

Once again, thank you for making me realise that a small baffle extension at such high frequency will make such a big difference.

View attachment 172961

PS. I have not suggested enclosure damping. I suggested electrical filtering.
That does make the baffle action easier to see. Thanks. I can't resist posting one more plot--the system response with my revised crossover without the front baffle wings. I took this at about 15 degrees off axis--close to a normal listening angle with no toe-in--to show how much the high frequency response improves when you get rid of the diffraction peaks and dips caused by the center mounting of the drivers. The speaker sounds great with the new crossover, but access to the inside of the cabinet is too difficult and treacherous to make it practical.

1639704104912.png
 
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bigjacko

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I'm no expert on port dynamics, but I guess the theory rests on the proposition that a bajillion little ports each with a very high ratio of length to diameter will be less prone to a pronounced resonance than a single port with a lower ratio of length to diameter.
That is my guess too. Resistance in pipe is not significant compare to head loss, which means kinetic energy drop due to height. Do you have a measurement for with the straws and without the starws? That should be pretty clear what the difference is.
 

sarumbear

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That does make the baffle action easier to see. Thanks. I can't resist posting one more plot--the system response with my revised crossover. I took this at about 1 degrees off axis--close to a normal listening angle with no toe-in--to show how much the high frequency response improves when you get rid of the diffraction peaks and dips caused by the center mounting of the drivers. The speaker sounds great with the new crossover, but access to the inside of the cabinet is too difficult and treacherous to make it practical.

View attachment 172985
Isn't that a beauty? :) As I always say, often the issues are not due to cost cutting, it is instead caused by cutting off a competent designer from the design/manufacturing process.

Can you share us how the baffle extensions look?

I know I have been asking too many favours but can you try two more plots, please. One with the with just your crossover changes without your baffles in place. And, the same but this time the super-tweeter disconnected (or covered).

I value our correspondence very much. Thank you.
 

sarumbear

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It looks like unmodified, the peaking from baffle step happens to coincide with the resonant peak. The latter is obviously still there even after modification, it's just no longer riding on top of a bigger wave so to speak. Ideally you'll want to address both.
Either the "it" means something else or you are failing to see the difference between the two curves.
 

Dennis Murphy

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Isn't that a beauty? :) As I always say, often the issues are not due to cost cutting, it is instead caused by cutting off a competent designer from the design/manufacturing process.

Can you share us how the baffle extensions look?

I know I have been asking too many favours but can you try two more plots, please. One with the with just your crossover changes without your baffles in place. And, the same but this time the super-tweeter disconnected (or covered).

I value our correspondence very much. Thank you.
I just edited my last post to make it clear that the plot was taken with my Xover mod but no front baffle wings. I've already posted the plot with both mods in place. If you squint, you can see the stock response without the super tweeter in the system plot I posted earlier. The super tweeter makes a very small contribution--it just adds a little output above 14 kHz. However, without any filter it has strong output down to 3 kHz. I tried to blend it in lower at around 8 kHz with a proper low pass filter on the main tweeter, but I always ended up with a peak. I'm sure I could have figured it out eventually, but it's academic since no one in their right mind would go through what I went through to get the vanity woofer ring off and dislodge the old crossover. Sony really didn't want people messing with their speaker.
 

sarumbear

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I just edited my last post to make it clear that the plot was taken with my Xover mod but no front baffle wings. I've already posted the plot with both mods in place. If you squint, you can see the stock response without the super tweeter in the system plot I posted earlier. The super tweeter makes a very small contribution--it just adds a little output above 14 kHz. However, without any filter it has strong output down to 3 kHz. I tried to blend it in lower at around 8 kHz with a proper low pass filter on the main tweeter, but I always ended up with a peak. I'm sure I could have figured it out eventually, but it's academic since no one in their right mind would go through what I went through to get the vanity woofer ring off and dislodge the old crossover. Sony really didn't want people messing with their speaker.
Thank you for the responses, Sir. Much obliged. You have proved once again that it is often not the cost cutting but the lack of design acumen that limits a product's quality.
 

AJM1981

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I ran into a rumor or fact that the SSCS5 seems to be the most returned loudspeaker of the moment, as enthusiasts want to test what the hype is about. Maybe the first social media hype loudspeaker (?)

Personally I think it is a nice loudspeaker but obviously overhyped. I like conventional three-way loudspeakers and it was on my list as one for my second setup, but it doesn't seem to be a conventional three way speaker given the crossover points.

I still don't know why a "super tweeter" would add anything as most tweeters already go to slightly beyond our hearing range. The effect of the tweeter's high crossover point might give the illusion of having a little of a different character that makes people like it somehow, but that's not about the extra frequencies. As for the super tweeter in general; for studio's I kind of get the philosophy behind having a bit of headroom, but most seem to lie in hypothesis and not so much in reality.

A terrain on which the SSC5 especially loses is in its optical design. It is 'ok,' but it looks cheap . It is more of a practical loudspeaker than something that blends in with furniture, hi-fi always should have this balance between sound and how well it looks. Basically the SSC5 is not really the eyecatcher to keep. And at the price point there are companies offering much more. I once needed to release my Wharfedale Diamond 12.2's because I bought the Denton 85th's, but I still kind of regret because they were pieces of art.
 
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