SMSL M500 DAC and HP Amp Review

[Palex]

I think that the purpose is to check if SMSL is cheating us or not. The answer seems to be: Yes. Topping will be the next to check.

My doubts about honesty of check. Why have begun repeated check with M500? Therefore - that the cheap full decoder in the market? Why didn't begin to check the first, for example Pre Box S2 Digital?

On April 13, 2019 - Amirm has checked Amazon Echo Link. WolfX-700 has to begin check with this DAC) And consistently to recheck other tests. Why has begun with M500?))) Competition?))))

 

[pcdinh]

Why have begun repeated check with M500? Therefore - that the cheap full decoder in the market? Why didn't begin to check the first, for example Pre Box S2 Digital?

A random one must be checked first. If Pre Box S2 Digital is checked first, one fan will ask: why us first, not them.

BTW, Chinese brands has hard times to build trust. I am excited about SMSL M500 at first: good specs, good measurements (before independently verified), cheaper than Topping whose reputation is damaged by Topping DX3 Pro. Now I don't think I want to buy it. I may reconsider it if SMSL releases SMSL M500 v2 that fixes all known issues including degrading performance after several hours of use.

ASR measurement methodologies need to change too.

In short, 2 problems

+ SMSL trust is broken
+ ASR measurements are unreliable for now. We need independent verifiers

 

[JohnYang1997]

A random one must be checked first. If Pre Box S2 Digital is checked first, one fan will ask: why us first, not them.

BTW, Chinese brands has hard times to build trust. I am excited about SMSL M500 at first: good specs, good measurements (before independently verified), cheaper than Topping whose reputation is damaged by Topping DX3 Pro. Now I don't think I want to buy it. I may reconsider it if SMSL releases SMSL M500 v2 that fixes all known issues including degrading performance after several hours of use.

ASR measurement methodologies need to change too.

In short, 2 problems

+ SMSL trust is broken
+ ASR measurements are unreliable for now. We need independent verifiers

It's not SMSL trust is broken. It's still more competent than most other brands on the market especially the one in US. The snake oil is real.
ASR measurements are still reliable. It's just not complete. These measurements are based on normal operation condition and doesn't consider all details. If we consider all details it may need over a week of hours upon hours of test to fully gather the behaviour of the device.
Thermal stability measurements are very time consuming to perform. And it was not a common issue. Hence amir didn't test it.

 

[Toku]

I trust both SMSL and Topping much more than Japanese manufacturers.
There will always be defects in new products. However, their company will respond quickly and improve on defects.
There is always a response to questions and suggestions from users and we will answer them seriously. This is great.
So I try to tell them any problems I notice immediately.
I will continue to purchase products from both companies even if there are a few problems.
That's why I don't want to believe "Golden Sample". Must not be.

 

[szhchen]

I trust both SMSL and Topping much more than Japanese manufacturers.
There will always be defects in new products. However, their company will respond quickly and improve on defects.
There is always a response to questions and suggestions from users and we will answer them seriously. This is great.
So I try to tell them any problems I notice immediately.
I will continue to purchase products from both companies even if there are a few problems.
That's why I don't want to believe "Golden Sample". Must not be.

Defected new products is always there. But RMA to china is really trouble some.
SMSL can't or no willing to deal with china customs. SMSL didn't offer me a formal RMA step to make sure I won't taxed as trading.
Where free RMA shouldn't be taxed on both side.

 

[TC!!]

Not much help as I can't remember which manufacturer it was but someone posted here before that one of the chinese companies had american and european centres to handle repairs.

 

[Tks]

A random one must be checked first. If Pre Box S2 Digital is checked first, one fan will ask: why us first, not them.

BTW, Chinese brands has hard times to build trust. I am excited about SMSL M500 at first: good specs, good measurements (before independently verified), cheaper than Topping whose reputation is damaged by Topping DX3 Pro. Now I don't think I want to buy it. I may reconsider it if SMSL releases SMSL M500 v2 that fixes all known issues including degrading performance after several hours of use.

ASR measurement methodologies need to change too.

In short, 2 problems

+ SMSL trust is broken
+ ASR measurements are unreliable for now. We need independent verifiers

Unreliable? Trust broken? Sure if you have reading comprehension issues.

As for ASR measurements the only thing ASR could do is imply equalize time of testing, or do a timed measurement. I don't understand what is unreliable, it's not like there are figures there that don't exit, or that are fake. What alternative do you have for reliability exactly? And when you say unreliable, are to saying every single measurement metric is unreliable?

Also if you check the thread, the phenomena could apply technically to all devices, especially those without thermal management and such. You can take a look at what the stable performance metric is after a few minutes, and treat that as the new established SINAD.

As for independent verifiers, independent verifiers for what exactly? Every single ASR measurement ever conducted? I mean sure, more peer review is always great. Would you care to provide APx555 analyzers for some time while everything gets retested to the measurement instructions you desire?

 

[arn]

I got it, hw 1.2 sw 1.5. the display has a dead pixel, and the rca output at 40 is ca 1/5 volume of my v90 dac.

 

[TC!!]

I got it, hw 1.2 sw 1.5. the display has a dead pixel, and the rca output at 40 is ca 1/5 volume of my v90 dac.

2 things, make sure you have the output set to line not hp. If you are using USB as the input then upgrade to the latest USB firmware:
http://www.smsl-audio.com/download.asp

 

[arn]

On the hp, i cannot hear anything i hope the usb update helps. nvidia shield would be the source.

 

[Koeitje]

I got the same revision as you and don't have this problem, its about the same as my old dac. On USB and optical.

 

[Spocko]

Just ordered the M500 and seeing that most issues stem from PC as a source, what about via USB from a dedicated streamer like the Pro-Ject Streambox S2 Ultra (runs off Volumio rebadge)?

 

[YoYo]

I returned the first M500 unit and bought another one.
I can confirm that it's impossible to update the USB firmware from 1.07 to 1.08 ... On the new unit, the update from 1.05 to 1.08 works perfectly.
And now with the USB firmware 1.08 I have no problem with DSD>256 and PCM 768Khz

 

[szhchen]

I returned the first M500 unit and bought another one.
I can confirm that it's impossible to update the USB firmware from 1.07 to 1.08 ... On the new unit, the update from 1.05 to 1.08 works perfectly.
And now with the USB firmware 1.08 I have no problem with DSD>256 and PCM 768Khz

well I think this is the true answer. 1.07 firm will break some M500 revision

 

[YoYo]

Defected new products is always there. But RMA to china is really trouble some.
SMSL can't or no willing to deal with china customs. SMSL didn't offer me a formal RMA step to make sure I won't taxed as trading.
Where free RMA shouldn't be taxed on both side.

Order a new one on Amazon sold by SMSL and shipped by Amazon. Then return the defective model to Amazon and ask for the refund ... it is not a very clean solution... but SMSL must ensure a real after sales service for the models shipped from China...

 

[Mamoles]

Hi everyone,
I just received my M500 in order to replace an Audiophonics U-Sabre ES9023 TCXO DAC.
Pretty happy with it so far.
I would like to get help from you.
The unit has been updated to the latest 1.08 firmware.
I've connected a Chromecast audio with a toslink optical to the M500.
I use Bubble Upnp to mainly play FLAC and WAV files from my NAS.
On my NAS, Minimserver and Bubble Upnp server are installed.
It works but when i try to play DSD or DSF files, Bubble Upnp is transcoding.
If i disable transcoding, it says Chromecast does not support this file format.
I thought using the optical output of the Chromecast audio bypassed the internal CCA DAC !
As the M500 is supposed to natively play DSD files, i don't understand why Bubble Upnp is transcoding.
Thank you for your help and time.

 

[Toku]

Hi everyone,
I just received my M500 in order to replace an Audiophonics U-Sabre ES9023 TCXO DAC.
Pretty happy with it so far.
I would like to get help from you.
The unit has been updated to the latest 1.08 firmware.
I've connected a Chromecast audio with a toslink optical to the M500.
I use Bubble Upnp to mainly play FLAC and WAV files from my NAS.
On my NAS, Minimserver and Bubble Upnp server are installed.
It works but when i try to play DSD or DSF files, Bubble Upnp is transcoding.
If i disable transcoding, it says Chromecast does not support this file format.
I thought using the optical output of the Chromecast audio bypassed the internal CCA DAC !
As the M500 is supposed to natively play DSD files, i don't understand why Bubble Upnp is transcoding.
Thank you for your help and time.

COAX/OPT connection can only transmit PCM signals.
M500 can receive up to PCM44.1kHz --> PCM192kHz, but not DSD/DSF signal.
Therefore, when handling DSD/DSF signals, they are generally converted to PCM signals and transmitted.
However, M500 can play DSD2.8 (DSD64) by converting DSD/DSF to DoP signal (DSD on PCM) and transmitting it. This conversion to DoP is usually done on a PC. Perhaps your current system doesn't have the Dop feature.

 

[Mamoles]

COAX/OPT connection can only transmit PCM signals.
M500 can receive up to PCM44.1kHz --> PCM192kHz, but not DSD/DSF signal.
Therefore, when handling DSD/DSF signals, they are generally converted to PCM signals and transmitted.
However, M500 can play DSD2.8 (DSD64) by converting DSD/DSF to DoP signal (DSD on PCM) and transmitting it. This conversion to DoP is usually done on a PC. Perhaps your current system doesn't have the Dop feature.

Thank you very much for this clear and quick answer.
I now understand why the M500 displayed PCM 44kHz PCM when i played a DSD from Foobar connected on USB to my PC.

 

[NorthGraves]

I now understand why the M500 displayed PCM 44kHz PCM when i played a DSD from Foobar connected on USB to my PC.

If M500 is connected on USB directly to your PC, you can easily configure foobar to output native DSD stream, not DoP (DSD over PCM).
And DSD512 you can only do via native DSD, not DoP.

 

[w1000i]

I got it, hw 1.2 sw 1.5. the display has a dead pixel, and the rca output at 40 is ca 1/5 volume of my v90 dac.

Try Windows PC/Laptop.