SMSL M500 DAC and HP Amp Review

[Shoaibexpert]

Great review as always @amirm was waiting for this for some time. I've placed my order after this.

Ive 3 questions to the community:

1. If the max output of the M500 XLRs is 6.8v ... Why is it a bad idea to keep the volume at max in the DAC (at 6.8v) as that may make the measured performance even better (guessing, not sure about that fully but maybe that would optimize the Dynamic Range etc.) and use the Amp to control the volume...I mean can using the full XLR signal improve the SiNAD to 120 Db like the DX7 Pro?

2. The review draws attention to the 3 PCM filters that truncate below 22K...should people be using one of these filters for best performance?

3. Would the Topping DX7PRO accusilicon modules be better to reduce jitter as they are pretty expensive components? I know the measurements suggest no difference.

Overall, I've bought the M500 due to similar measured performance of the DX7 Pro with lesser cost and a + MQA.

@amirm I know you have both the DX7 Pro and the M500 now, would love to see if you can tell the difference sound wise between the two.

 

[Tks]

@TC!!

What do you mean? The RME has it's voltage clearly displayed. To get 4V on the XLR line outs, you simply use +13db Ref Level, and -5db or -4.5dBu set with the volume encoder. If you use unbalanced, obviously the voltage drops to half, to 2V.

 

[Rene]

They are balanced. I have not seen a fake XLR line out output on a DAC.

Amir, Does the AP have provision for testing this? Can it measure each output leg independently?

The definition of balanced would be that each leg of the output would present the same impedance. This can be done by using just a resistor in the inverted output leg or with a separate output buffer. It's the impedance that's important.

 

[TC!!]

@TC!!

What do you mean? The RME has it's voltage clearly displayed. To get 4V on the XLR line outs, you simply use +13db Ref Level, and -5db or -4.5dBu set with the volume encoder. If you use unbalanced, obviously the voltage drops to half, to 2V.

I think I'm saying the same as you, the RME is good as it allows you to set the voltage, the one which couldn't was the Benchmark DAC 3.

 

[AudioTodd]

Hey a while back in this thread there was some discussion of sample rates, filters and ultrasonics. This got me to thinking...

It might be the subject of another thread - or should be - but I’m interested in the thoughts of those with the requisite technical background on the incidence and effects of phase shift in the audible band. If I remember correctly, way back in the day phase shift from analog filters was posited as one of the possible causes for what some people believe(d) were deficiencies of digital versus analog (as though an-all analog chain was free of phase shift!! - But I digress) and higher sample rates were supposedly a solution by raising the filter corner frequency to far above the audible range, thus also raising the frequency at which phase shift became “significant”. So:

1) How much phase shift is caused by different types of filters?
2) Do digital filters cause phase shift?
3) How audible are the effects of phase shift at different frequencies?
4) What would these effects be and can any audible effect be described or demonstrated clearly so we would know what to “hear” for?

John Siau of Benchmark mentioned minimal phase shift here on ASR a while back, by the way, and it appealed to me as a perfectionist (and happy owner of many Benchmark products). I am interested in what other qualified people think and can add.
THANKS!

 

[Shoaibexpert]

Yes. To get roughly 4 volt, you operate it at 34 volume level so you have all of that to play with.

For someone having a simple DAC XLR to Amp setup, should we use it at 40/40 to get the best results?

 

[m8o]

. If the max output of the M500 XLRs is 6.8v ... Why is it a bad idea to keep the volume at max in the DAC (at 6.8v) as that may make the measured performance even better (guessing, not sure about that fully but maybe that would optimize the Dynamic Range etc.) and use the Amp to control the volume..

What comes to mind is,
For one, not all amps have input attenuation (be that selectable 3dB steps or the like, or an infinitely variable 'volume' control)
and for two, some amps will clip at the front-end with a high input level.

Not a problem for me. I like my gear be it balanced or unbalanced to have 'headroom' on both the input and output. I think my Perrreaux preamp can handle a 25V input without clipping, for example. Just answering with the above as those are two things that could be a/the concern for some.

 

[Tyty]

L'M500 può emettere contemporaneamente XLR e RCA per collegare subwoofer e amplificatore?

Si , io piloto il sub amplificato collegato alle xlr e le rca al finale e funziona benissimo!!

 

[Shoaibexpert]

Saw the MQA posts and whilst I agree that it's a discussion another thread, here are the MQA Team's responses about how MQA compares: (don't know if it's relevant, but thought to share anyways)

Hi Shoaibexpert,

If I were to put numbers on it, I would say that MQA “Core” gives about 70% of the performance benefit of MQA while the hardware render provides the final 30%. Keep in mind that frequency “extension” is a very small part of what makes MQA special, it is the key timing information that is present in higher sample rates that makes us “believe” that the music is live. This acuity to timing information is built in to us as humans, and does not diminish over time as we age.

TIDAL’s desktop app will provide up to 24 bit/96kHz output, depending on the Studio Master’s resolution, to ANY DAC. There are additional benefits to achieving full MQA Studio Quality Sound that can only be achieved by an MQA Certified DAC including additional unfolding to higher resolutions as well as DAC management as dictated by the A/D used to create the Studio Master file.

With that being said, almost every public demonstration I have done people can hear the difference in Core and fully rendered MQA.

Regards,

The MQA Team

PS. I CAN hear MQA differences and really love how it smoothens the music flow (being a bit if an sujectivist, I know it's criminal here on ASR - after all most people seem to come here to measure and compare audio equipment performance and not to discuss about enjoying music in all it's effortlessness)

 

[Charles0322]

Purchased one for the digital setup for streaming Tidal and MQA. Like the balanced out, remote and chipset.

The customer service has been exceptional.. I have been in contact with them regarding questions..

They also let me know that the declared value on the shipment will avoid tariffs in most situations with a low declared value.

At this price point, it allows me to get into hi-res MQA without splurging on Mytek or Matrix Element X, both on my list but out of my price range..

Will post my video review and thoughts as soon as it arrives.

Best regards, Charles

 

[Veri]

Saw the MQA posts and whilst I agree that it's a discussion another thread, here are the MQA Team's responses about how MQA compares: (don't know if it's relevant, but thought to share anyways)

Hi Shoaibexpert,

If I were to put numbers on it, I would say that MQA “Core” gives about 70% of the performance benefit of MQA while the hardware render provides the final 30%. Keep in mind that frequency “extension” is a very small part of what makes MQA special, it is the key timing information that is present in higher sample rates that makes us “believe” that the music is live. This acuity to timing information is built in to us as humans, and does not diminish over time as we age.

TIDAL’s desktop app will provide up to 24 bit/96kHz output, depending on the Studio Master’s resolution, to ANY DAC. There are additional benefits to achieving full MQA Studio Quality Sound that can only be achieved by an MQA Certified DAC including additional unfolding to higher resolutions as well as DAC management as dictated by the A/D used to create the Studio Master file.

With that being said, almost every public demonstration I have done people can hear the difference in Core and fully rendered MQA.

Regards,

The MQA Team

PS. I CAN hear MQA differences and really love how it smoothens the music flow (being a bit if an sujectivist, I know it's criminal here on ASR - after all most people seem to come here to measure and compare audio equipment performance and not to discuss about enjoying music in all it's effortlessness)

Key timing information?? Also, any link to those public demonstrations..??

That read like a bad audiophile review, ugh

 

[Shoaibexpert]

Key timing information?? Also, any link to those public demonstrations..??

That read like a bad audiophile review, ugh

Straight from the horse's mouth...no killing the messenger plz...but here I found something that might help:

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/mqa-time-domain-accuracy-digital-audio-quality (lords of the time domain etc.)...looks fairly objective...might pass people's thin filter of acceptance here...

Though I read somewhere that the M500 applies the selected PCM Filter to MQA playback...don't know then how this would impact the time domain aspects of MQA decoding and if it could still be technically called as Master Authenticated. Maybe @SMSL-Mandy could clarify this for us...

 

[Toku]

Straight from the horse's mouth...no killing the messenger plz...but here I found something that might help:

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/mqa-time-domain-accuracy-digital-audio-quality (lords of the time domain etc.)...looks fairly objective...might pass people's thin filter of acceptance here...

Though I read somewhere that the M500 applies the selected PCM Filter to MQA playback...don't know then how this would impact the time domain aspects of MQA decoding and if it could still be technically called as Master Authenticated. Maybe @SMSL-Mandy could clarify this for us...

It was hard for me to read English, but it was very interesting!!
I want to keep an eye on the future of this new technology.
Thank you.

 

[BDWoody]

PS. I CAN hear MQA differences and really love how it smoothens the music flow (being a bit if an sujectivist, I know it's criminal here on ASR - after all most people seem to come here to measure and compare audio equipment performance and not to discuss about enjoying music in all it's effortlessness)

Wow...nice little slam there at the end.

No, not criminal, just reflective of flawed reasoning.
I come here to learn and talk about the science of music reproduction with a group of incredibly knowledgable people.

 

[Kane1972]

Wow...nice little slam there at the end.

No, not criminal, just reflective of flawed reasoning.
I come here to learn and talk about the science of music reproduction with a group of incredibly knowledgable people.

I have no idea who the "MQA Team" consist of, could be simply marketing bots, but I do have a lot of respect for Meridian as a company. They have innovated a lot of tech over the years. I'm sure their designers know what they are talking about.

 

[Shoaibexpert]

Wow...nice little slam there at the end.

No, not criminal, just reflective of flawed reasoning.
I come here to learn and talk about the science of music reproduction with a group of incredibly knowledgable people.

Liked the way how you put music enjoyment (the actual reason people buy, measure audio equipment and yeah! contribute to our audio science here too - if they arent - then they should be IMO) which is a subjective thing = to 'flawed reasoning'. I'm sure some of us would wanna take back something learned on this forum to apply and enhance their very subjective listening experience....I know I do! I've learned from your inputs too @BDWoody in the past. Not an engineer here and trying to be very nice and polite in trying to say what I feel here...

 

[BDWoody]

Liked the way how you put music enjoyment (the actual reason people buy, measure audio equipment and yeah! contribute to our audio science here too - if they arent - then they should be IMO) which is a subjective thing = to 'flawed reasoning'. I'm sure some of us would wanna take back something learned on this forum to apply and enhance their very subjective listening experience....I know I do! I've learned from your inputs too @BDWoody in the past. Not an engineer here and trying to be very nice and polite in trying to say what I feel here...

Well, I'm not putting enjoyment above anything. I suppose I get a bit annoyed when people toss out somewhat provocative statements, like subjective reviews being 'criminal around here at ASR'...

I shouldn't have generalized quite so much.

I will say, often, people come here with a flawed belief system, and their uncontrolled subjective reviews of things with the intent to enlighten others may be perfectly well intentioned, but are hopelessly flawed with regard to having potentially transferable meaning.
I enjoy subjective reviews, or hearing about how much someone is enjoying their new (fill in the blank). The flawed part is when people think these uncontrolled subjective impressions have any value in anything but an anecdotal sense.

For some, that gap between what they've always believed and what can be actually demonstrated through decades of research leads to a new kind of peace and enjoyment, because we no longer have to worry about a whole bunch of stuff that might otherwise capture our attention.

I'm glad kilobuck cables, 5 figure DAC's, and all the rest of that nonsense is in the rearview mirror.

Nothing personal or offensive meant in any of that or in earlier responses, but 'criminal?' Really

I would say, don't be surprised if you are challenged when expressing these views...that's part of what the site does... In effect, it challenges the entire industry...why should people who come here to post expect any different?

I try to keep at least a smirk on while here, rather than a sneer...sometimes they may be hard to tell apart.
Cheers.

 

[splattened]

after all most people seem to come here to measure and compare audio equipment performance and not to discuss about enjoying music in all it's effortlessness)

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?forums/music-reviews-and-discussions.18/

 

[Nathan Raymond]

I have no idea who the "MQA Team" consist of, could be simply marketing bots, but I do have a lot of respect for Meridian as a company. They have innovated a lot of tech over the years. I'm sure their designers know what they are talking about.

I lost respect for Meridian when they started pimping MQA. I do not want technology heavily tied up in patents, copyright, trade secrets, and undisclosed financial agreements in my audio chain:

https://boingboing.net/2018/12/20/taste-the-toxic-rainbow.html

 

[Rockfella]

No, the M300 uses AKM DAC chip. This one uses ESS.

Most people like AKM over ESS. NO clue how this is relevant. Thx for this one too Amir.