SMSL M400 & M200 new dacs!

[ModDIY]

on the other hand what tires me, it is the measures taken by @ Wolf-700, in others the FFT which differs from the measures taken by SMSL.

I would like to have an explanation from a member of SMSL also about multitone distortion measurements ... they are absent.

 

[ModDIY]

I just returned my M200 ($303 shipped from Amazon US) and picked up another E30 from Amazon US ($99 from Apos "like new".....$114 shipped). Likely a return with broken polarity. I will only use it with USB, fixed polarity and no need for bluetooth, so big score IMO.

$189 difference (the value part I can live with ) and the E30 is much cleaner in multi-tone. RCA out to XLR on SP200 is phenom.

I'll bet we see more inexpensive DAC's appear with XLR as we go. The E30 will be a fine bridge until then or it may be good forever ....

I also asked for a return from Amazon (M200). I am thinking of buying a Topping DX50s

 

[dmac6419]

M200 is perfectly fine for me,sounds good too.

that´s what he says too....but others are better price to performance it seems.

When it comes to sound "Z" is not the ultimate instance to me though.
Entertainment in his reviews is more likely than detailed descriptions of the sound of a device.

But then again....in this regards he repeats to choose the "Topping E30" rather than this.

Dude I don't listen to Z or any other reviewer,I look at it all data and I make my own decisions based on what I want and can afford,I got money for a Mola Mola but I ain't gonna buy one.

 

[A Surfer]

on the other hand what tires me, it is the measures taken by @ Wolf-700, in others the FFT which differs from the measures taken by SMSL.

I would like to have an explanation from a member of SMSL also about multitone distortion measurements ... they are absent.

You listened to the M200 did you not? Could you hear any distortion? I must admit that I didn't see the measurements that you are talking about. Were they bad or simply measurable, but inaudible?

 

[ModDIY]

You listened to the M200 did you not? Could you hear any distortion? I must admit that I didn't see the measurements that you are talking about. Were they bad or simply measurable, but inaudible?

Honestly it's very musical, the sound is good with good definition and an excellent soundstage. If the distortion measures, do we hear them?? Good question, if someone could tell us where explained a little more, that would be good.

 

[A Surfer]

I'll let you know how it plays in my system. I will be using mostly for two channel audio, although also with my headphones although I do use my FiiO Q5s with the AM3D amp module for headphone listening and that is a wonderful sounding device. @ModDIY, so where are Wolf's measurements and why are you returning the M200 so quickly if you found the sound quality very good? Surely you aren't returning it simply due to one measurement that may not even be audible.

 

[A Surfer]

I just returned my M200 ($303 shipped from Amazon US) and picked up another E30 from Amazon US ($99 from Apos "like new".....$114 shipped). Likely a return with broken polarity. I will only use it with USB, fixed polarity and no need for bluetooth, so big score IMO.

$189 difference (the value part I can live with ) and the E30 is much cleaner in multi-tone. RCA out to XLR on SP200 is phenom.

I'll bet we see more high performance inexpensive DAC's appear with XLR as we go. The E30 will be a fine bridge until then or it may be good forever ....

Would you be kind enough to provide a link to the measurements of multitone distortion that you are talking about? As well, do you know whether or not the measurements that concerned you were actually audible? I also prefer things to measure very well, but if the results are actually inaudible that would not be a concern to me. I very much enjoyed the sound quality from the SU-8 V2 and I would expect the M200 to be at least as capable sounding.

 

[A Surfer]

Are those the same measurements made by the same person on the same system? And if so, are these audible effects being shown or simply measurable? I think I may need to do some refresher on reading and interpreting such graphs.

 

[A Surfer]

No Wolf did the M200, Amir the other 2 The graphs are simply pulled from the respective threads in this DAC forum. Honestly, I don't think it's going to be audible, but it's so close, I chose the most inexpensive option.

Thank you, I really appreciate that. I am looking forward to actually using the M200 in my system which is pretty resolving with Monitor Audio PL200s supported by two little REL T-Zero subs and driven with a NAD M3. Not the last word at all in terms of sound quality, but certainly adequate to evaluate the sound of a DAC, which for what it is worth I think is transparent unless it is poorly designed. My feeling is that the M200 will provide me with really accurate musical reproduction, but this time when I don't feel like booting up my computer and turning on a TV I will be able to stream via Bluetooth which is quite nice. I use Onkyo HF Player on my phone for this duty.

 

[A Surfer]

You have nice gear! And the M200 should be especially transparent in a speaker system. I am under high rez headphones, and honestly couldn't perceive differences in about the last 5 DAC's I've bought in the past 2 years, either through RCA or XLR. When we are at 0.000X like we are now, I think we're good.... very good

Great, and I agree about DACs. I have had a NAD M51, Chord Mojo, a few iFi and FiiO DACs, all sound transparent to me. I also use headphones extensively and I have owned a few nice ones (800s, Z1R, LCD 2, Edition X V2 etc.) and same thing goes with them, the DAC never seems to make a difference. Clearly it is the speaker that really matters, assuming the other devices in the chain are adequately designed and implemented. Today it is possible for a $100 DAC to sound absolutely superb whereas even 5 years ago that might not have been the case. I have been tempted to invest in expensive DACs, but after owning some modestly priced models I now feel that spending more than say $300 is likely a total waste of money. Clearly companies such as SMSL, Topping, FiiO and others are really making great efforts to deliver technically sound products that people can afford.

Sure if you have huge amounts of disposable income and it is irrelevant how much you spend, by all means get those statement pieces that are as much works of visual art as they are audio components, can't say I blame folks with money for that.

 

[XeNoNF50]

Great, and I agree about DACs. I have had a NAD M51, Chord Mojo, a few iFi and FiiO DACs, all sound transparent to me. I also use headphones extensively and I have owned a few nice ones (800s, Z1R, LCD 2, Edition X V2 etc.) and same thing goes with them, the DAC never seems to make a difference. Clearly it is the speaker that really matters, assuming the other devices in the chain are adequately designed and implemented. Today it is possible for a $100 DAC to sound absolutely superb whereas even 5 years ago that might not have been the case. I have been tempted to invest in expensive DACs, but after owning some modestly priced models I now feel that spending more than say $300 is likely a total waste of money. Clearly companies such as SMSL, Topping, FiiO and others are really making great efforts to deliver technically sound products that people can afford.

Sure if you have huge amounts of disposable income and it is irrelevant how much you spend, by all means get those statement pieces that are as much works of visual art as they are audio components, can't say I blame folks with money for that.

I kind of agree but only couple hundred bucks on top of the $300 you said can get you those flagship DAC chips.

 

[A Surfer]

I kind of agree but only couple hundred bucks on top of the $300 you said can get you those flagship DAC chips.

Will that get me any audible bang for my buck though?

 

[XeNoNF50]

Will that get me any audible bang for my buck though?

Depends on what is audible to the person I guess. Purely anecdotal for me, with my Focal Utopia I am using the xDuoo TA-30 amp (hybrid tube with power for days) which has integrated ES9038Q2M DAC. Felt like something was missing. I had a Topping D50s which I briefly tried on it from my other set up with the amp. Same DAC chip, couldn't really tell them apart. Using Sabaj D5 now with ES9038PRO, many times I can tell them apart distinctly. Sometimes I can only tell if I am directly A/Bing by switching from one to another. Either way I couldn't go back now as this sounds perfect to me, but is this caused by the synergy between AMP and DAC or the fact that it is a 'better' chip? I can't answer that. Bang for buck is all relative too I suppose - in my 2nd set up I have gone down the more "bang for buck route" for similar reasons to what you stated.

 

[A Surfer]

I am looking forward to hearing a Utopia. I have heard the Elear, the Clear and the Elegia and none of those really were the sound for me, but I suspect the Utopia is a different beast altogether. Currently I have the Edition X V2, Pioneer SE Monitor 5, a Klipsch HP-3 and on loan a Verum One.

 

[ModDIY]

I'll let you know how it plays in my system. I will be using mostly for two channel audio, although also with my headphones although I do use my FiiO Q5s with the AM3D amp module for headphone listening and that is a wonderful sounding device. @ModDIY, so where are Wolf's measurements and why are you returning the M200 so quickly if you found the sound quality very good? Surely you aren't returning it simply due to one measurement that may not even be audible.

I haven't returned the M200 yet, I'm waiting for the seller's response. it's true that I like the sound and the M200 has an AK4497 chip which provides a very good distortion rate and great dynamics, let's say that I am disappointed that SMSL did not build a DAC as good as the M300. It is the multitone measurement which bothers me, that of the FFT I saw the same thing with the Topping D70 which is ready for the double price. I don't know what's going on here, but it looks like 2 weights 2 measures ... I'm waiting for someone to explain to me.

 

[XeNoNF50]

I am looking forward to hearing a Utopia. I have heard the Elear, the Clear and the Elegia and none of those really were the sound for me, but I suspect the Utopia is a different beast altogether. Currently I have the Edition X V2, Pioneer SE Monitor 5, a Klipsch HP-3 and on loan a Verum One.

I adore my Utopia, the sound is a nice blend of technical and musical to me, feels like I can hear every detail. And my Stellia, many similarities to the Utopia but distinct in it's own right being warmer and smoother. And have a soft spot for my Verum One which I also keep around and use - true bang for buck king . The SP200 and soon to be arriving M200 is for my Stellia downstairs set up. The amp is a good match for it, Stellia is easy to drive and sounds good with a clean output. Hopefully it'll benefit at least from some good synergy from the M200.

 

[A Surfer]

I adore my Utopia, the sound is a nice blend of technical and musical to me, feels like I can hear every detail. And my Stellia, many similarities to the Utopia but distinct in it's own right being warmer and smoother. And have a soft spot for my Verum One which I also keep around and use - true bang for buck king . The SP200 and soon to be arriving M200 is for my Stellia downstairs set up. The amp is a good match for it, Stellia is easy to drive and sounds good with a clean output. Hopefully it'll benefit at least from some good synergy from the M200.

I agree, the Verum One really does deliver great performance for the price, well just great performance overall. I find the treble perhaps a little less polished by way of comparison to say my Edition X V2 which has lovely treble; however, the bass on the Verum One is very good, very good indeed. I also think the mid range has a little romantic forwardness that might detract a hair from the staging, but it has the effect of immediacy which makes for an engaging listen. At first I wasn't sure if the Verum was going to be fatiguing, but since the first listening session I haven't felt that it was so that is a positive. Not a lovely headphone, but even the V1 headband version which I have here with me is surprisingly comfortable and gets the job done quite nicely. For the price it goes for (which I suspect will go up soon enough) it really is perhaps one of the very best price to performance entries in quite some time.

I would like to hear the Stella as well.

 

[ModDIY]

I haven't returned the M200 yet, I'm waiting for the seller's response. it's true that I like the sound and the M200 has an AK4497 chip which provides a very good distortion rate and great dynamics, let's say that I am disappointed that SMSL...

Hi, I changed my mind and I will keep the SMSL M200.

 

[Veri]

Hi, I changed my mind and I will keep the SMSL M200.

ooh?

 

[ModDIY]

Look my message #30 on this thread

https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...fs-measurements-of-smsl-m200-dac.13913/page-2