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Smartphones will kill off DSLR's soon/

Offler

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What other purpose a photographer who doesn't make a living out of photography can have? Just curious.
Hobby or training to become one. But that is basically all.

I still meet a lot of people who claim that one should get full frame DSLR to become a pro. But nowadays i see mirrorless and its possibilities as a good tool to teach people how aperture and exposure works, and highlight/shadow mode as a tool how to explain dynamic range.

And I see crop formats (namely M43) as a way how to downsize rather large set of gear, and get much cheaper, but great lens
 

Andysu

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Sooty , taken with Canon s9200 finepix rapid motion mode . try that with a smart phone .

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pablolie

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Sooty , taken with Canon s9200 finepix rapid motion mode . try that with a smart phone .
:-D

Now *this* pic was taken with a smartphone :-D

PS: It's really a lovebite, he's a super-chill cat.
 

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Andysu

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:-D

Now *this* pic was taken with a smartphone :-D

PS: It's really a lovebite, he's a super-chill cat.
i don't like smart phones , they are snobbery phones . talk here listen hear , is all they are good for with cheap rubbish lenses made in china the whole phone made in china , when Canon made in Japan . now then .
 

pablolie

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i don't like smart phones , they are snobbery phones . talk here listen hear , is all they are good for with cheap rubbish lenses made in china the whole phone made in china , when Canon made in Japan . now then .
My cat clearly shares the sentiment. :-D

I do use my smartphone camera, and if you know your composition basics, you can take very good shots these days. But I rarely take any pride in them.

It's with my real camera(s) I can be creative, push envelopes and take real pride in the results. I never shoot in auto mode on my camera - my second fav camera is a Rolleflex 6x6 I inherited from my Dad. I can still remember him teaching me how to use it. No auto nothing, just a light indicator to help adjust aperture and exposure. Back to basics!

My main camera is an Olympus MFT - even though I recently acquired their latest OM-1, I still shoot far more with the EM5, because I know it inside out and that's more than half the battle IMO. I am a firm believer that familiarity with the camera and lens guarantees far better results than always jumping on the latest model with slightly improved AF and a bit more DR etc.
 

Andysu

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My cat clearly shares the sentiment. :-D

I do use my smartphone camera, and if you know your composition basics, you can take very good shots these days. But I rarely take any pride in them.

It's with my real camera(s) I can be creative, push envelopes and take real pride in the results. I never shoot in auto mode on my camera - my second fav camera is a Rolleflex 6x6 I inherited from my Dad. I can still remember him teaching me how to use it. No auto nothing, just a light indicator to help adjust aperture and exposure. Back to basics!

My main camera is an Olympus MFT - even though I recently acquired their latest OM-1, I still shoot far more with the EM5, because I know it inside out and that's more than half the battle IMO. I am a firm believer that familiarity with the camera and lens guarantees far better results than always jumping on the latest model with slightly improved AF and a bit more DR etc.
i use auto focus if i get that green symbols on the camera display i know it's okay . if it ain't due to light , i switch to manual .
 

Jmudrick

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Jmudrick

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HDR on phones works by stacking exposures automatically. It's just auto bracketing. Anything moves? It's garbage. Small sensors simply cannot match the dynamic range of bigger sensors, unless Sony somehow figured out how to ignore the laws of nature.

Night sight is just denoising, which is getting better but you still lose detail. Especially at the really high ISO levels, because the small sensor simply collects far less light.
Modern smart phones like the iphone 13 pro, Pixel etc do have a burst mode which is well equipped to handle action shots by shooting 10 frames per second. Not something I use but it's there. Yes of course if you happen to have a 1.2 Canon lens with you it will do better with action in low light.

 

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rdenney

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The problem with smartphone cameras is not that they don't allow manual control, they do. If you go into the menus you can have pretty much control as you do with a mirrorless or SLR, and they have various program modes as shortcuts. The problem is the ergonomics. If I use my mirrorless I can keep my eye on the view finder and use the rotary controls for any manual input I might want control of (shutter speed, aperture, exposure compensation) in real time with the information shown in the viewfinder. No smartphone gets close to that. And I keep coming back to the issue that if you are in a high backlight situation it is still extremely useful to have a viewfinder (either optical or electronic). None of this is intended as a criticism of smartphones and the vast majority of the photographs I take are done with my very mid-range smartphone.
I've never seen a phone app yet that allows me to focus manually with any degree of dexterity, and preserve that focus setting while I move the camera to find the true focus distance. This is such a common practice for me using conventional cameras that I find it really frustrating to have to tell the phone where the focus point is, again and again, as I move the camera to optimize the composition.

None provide aperture control, and in my experience the aperture setting has a larger effect on the resulting look of the photo than any other setting. They try to simulate that in software. Good luck with that.

None provide any ability to trigger external lighting. So, one must use continuous lighting, or depend on the LED "flash" in the phone, which has a useful range of about three feet, tops. Group picture with bounce flash on the ceiling, which is something I do at nearly every family gathering or event? Not happening. So, the phone pic ends up with daylight balance coming in through the window and yellow light (or, worse, blue-green fluorescent light) coming from indoor fixtures. Few use daylight-balanced fixtures indoors because it appears too blue. So, subjects are partly blue and partly yellow, which is really difficult to fix in post. But with a powerful flash on the camera, I can bounce it from the ceiling for a pleasing effect with enough light to overwhelm those off-color choices.

Most phones hot-rod the colors and saturation, which often obliterates the subtleties that made the scene what it is. Sure, I can import the file as raw and fix that in photoshop, but my good cameras get that right out of the box, even when they write the file in JPG format, because they are optimized to be cameras.

It is true that this thread isn't supposed to be about those sorts of issues--why we might prefer one over the other. It is a given that a smart phone (which is optimized to be a general-purpose hand-held computer) is not going to be optimized for photography. Most don't care, and the new photo album is handing one's (tiny) phone to someone else with a picture on it, inevitably requiring them to dig for their reading glasses so they can see what it is. And photos look stunning on my iphone, and then prove to be unusable for any print larger than that iphone because it was too dark to use without a tripod and suffered from motion blur, or whatever.

Over the decades, cameras for casual snapshooters have improved enormously in the same way that a cheap quartz watch is more useful than the cheap pin-lever mechanical watches they replaced. Phones are a bit of a step backwards from dedicated inexpensive cameras, but still sufficiently good for most casual snapshooting, if the photos are going to be displayed only on the phone itself.

Cameras for professional use have also improved.

But what has degraded are photographic standards. People now oooh and ah over overprocessed high-dynamic-range tone placement and extreme saturation, using "filters"--software simulations of "film". Photos that look natural and real are like amplifiers that exhibit effectively zero distortion--they are not "art". This happens when the tools dictate the standard.

Rick "we won't know what we've lost until it's gone" Denney
 

sarumbear

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I didn't expect this thread to have so much interest when I started it.
Maybe we should start a thread called "Smart speakers will kill separates"? :)
 

Andysu

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Jmudrick

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I've never seen a phone app yet that allows me to focus manually with any degree of dexterity, and preserve that focus setting while I move the camera to find the true focus distance. This is such a common practice for me using conventional cameras that I find it really frustrating to have to tell the phone where the focus point is, again and again, as I move the camera to optimize the composition.

None provide aperture control, and in my experience the aperture setting has a larger effect on the resulting look of the photo than any other setting. They try to simulate that in software. Good luck with that.

None provide any ability to trigger external lighting. So, one must use continuous lighting, or depend on the LED "flash" in the phone, which has a useful range of about three feet, tops. Group picture with bounce flash on the ceiling, which is something I do at nearly every family gathering or event? Not happening. So, the phone pic ends up with daylight balance coming in through the window and yellow light (or, worse, blue-green fluorescent light) coming from indoor fixtures. Few use daylight-balanced fixtures indoors because it appears too blue. So, subjects are partly blue and partly yellow, which is really difficult to fix in post. But with a powerful flash on the camera, I can bounce it from the ceiling for a pleasing effect with enough light to overwhelm those off-color choices.

Most phones hot-rod the colors and saturation, which often obliterates the subtleties that made the scene what it is. Sure, I can import the file as raw and fix that in photoshop, but my good cameras get that right out of the box, even when they write the file in JPG format, because they are optimized to be cameras.

It is true that this thread isn't supposed to be about those sorts of issues--why we might prefer one over the other. It is a given that a smart phone (which is optimized to be a general-purpose hand-held computer) is not going to be optimized for photography. Most don't care, and the new photo album is handing one's (tiny) phone to someone else with a picture on it, inevitably requiring them to dig for their reading glasses so they can see what it is. And photos look stunning on my iphone, and then prove to be unusable for any print larger than that iphone because it was too dark to use without a tripod and suffered from motion blur, or whatever.

Over the decades, cameras for casual snapshooters have improved enormously in the same way that a cheap quartz watch is more useful than the cheap pin-lever mechanical watches they replaced. Phones are a bit of a step backwards from dedicated inexpensive cameras, but still sufficiently good for most casual snapshooting, if the photos are going to be displayed only on the phone itself.

Cameras for professional use have also improved.

But what has degraded are photographic standards. People now oooh and ah over overprocessed high-dynamic-range tone placement and extreme saturation, using "filters"--software simulations of "film". Photos that look natural and real are like amplifiers that exhibit effectively zero distortion--they are not "art". This happens when the tools dictate the standard.

Rick "we won't know what we've lost until it's gone" Denney
Yup. Superior technology doesn't necessarily drive markets and symphonies and jazz clubs go broke. All the great stuff about DSLRs has little to do with whether the format survives.

Currently en transit to Cambodia, left the Fuji and Nikon at home. Pixel and LG phones with me.

J" I invested in HD-DVD" Mudrick
 
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MakeMineVinyl

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There is a really cool app I use called Halide that allows you to take control over your smart phone. There are others I’m sure.
Will that app eliminate spam calls?
 

rdenney

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one with and without split lens diopter . taken with Canon 750D DLSR . only used the lens few times it was cheap . guess ones used on panavsion cameras is a silly price , but decent shots with the lens . https://nofilmschool.com/2013/10/deep-focus-use-of-split-diopters-in-film

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I guess I never realized there were lenses that used a split diopter--I had assumed these were done by swinging the lens (as would be the case on a still camera). I first saw the effect in All The President's Men.

All-The-Presidents-Men-10.jpg

(from here.)

This would have been an easy thing with a swing, though the lens would have needed quite a wide coverage angle, and the desk clutter at foreground right would have been out of focus.

Rick "neat!" Denney
 

Andysu

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split lens diopter , threads onto the Canon wide angle lens

split lens diopter.jpg
 

Andysu

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what makes an image is based on two substances . light and shadow . and that is what makes an image . less light the less we can see of the image .
 

MakeMineVinyl

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I guess I never realized there were lenses that used a split diopter--I had assumed these were done by swinging the lens (as would be the case on a still camera). I first saw the effect in All The President's Men.

All-The-Presidents-Men-10.jpg

(from here.)

This would have been an easy thing with a swing, though the lens would have needed quite a wide coverage angle, and the desk clutter at foreground right would have been out of focus.

Rick "neat!" Denney
I've seen that scene many times but never noticed the telltale blur above the television set.
 

Andysu

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Yes--I've decided I need one.

Rick "hah!" Denney
they are cheap £20 or less . check mm size and threading before buying .
 
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