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Shure Out of the Cartridge Business

DonH56

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TBone

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Yeah, it was posted by Fremer not long ago. I'd luv to get my mittens on a old/new V15mr5. Contrary to what the high-enders constantly claim (even misguided I, at one point) about the many sonic advantages of moving coils in relation to lower life moving magnets ... the V15mr5 in a well implemented system, would still better most MC of today, at any cost.
 

sergeauckland

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I have a V15-V albeit with a Jico SAS stylus, and prefer my two MCs, an AT33ML and an EMT TSD15vdh. The main issue I've found with the V15 is that the frequency response with a normal 47k / 200pF or so loading isn't anywhere near flat, and even loading with higher capacitance doesn't make it as flat as the AT or EMT.

It's possible to re-equalise it flat, but frankly, I can't be bothered, as the AT works so well, and suits the AEG turntable's phono stage with an AT SUT very well. Tracking is better on the Shure, but isn't lacking on either of my other cartridges, so it sits in its box, and I use it only when I fancy a play with my TT.

I've found overall, having had several MMs and MCs over the years that MCs are far less fussy over loading, and just work, whereas MMs need work.

S
 

TBone

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much experience with the AT33 models, I like em, although they sounded a tad soft in my system. My pre-amp has little issues with either MC or MM loading, and it's further adjustable if need be. My last ~10 carts have been coils, but currently I'm using a very-rare variation of the moving magnet (but not really a moving magnet) persuasion. Although I've enjoyed many coils over the years, none proved as accurate as my current cart, measured & listening. To be honest, it surprised me silly, it was a stop-gap measure until my new-ordered (now cancelled) MC (Benz, LO SLR) arrived. My next cartridge choice - has already been made - and it's not a MC.
 
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DonH56

DonH56

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The advert I most remember for cartridges:
3277.jpg
 

Sal1950

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about the many sonic advantages of moving coils in relation to lower life moving magnets
I may be having a senior moment but I'm not remembering anything about "lower life"?

I used a number of very expensive (for me) MC's and a V15 but always seemed to gravitate back to Stantons top line 681 and 881's. I may just have been a sucker for the KOOL individual freq responces plots that came with each one?
 

TBone

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I may be having a senior moment but I'm not remembering anything about "lower life"?

I used a number of very expensive (for me) MC's and a V15 but always seemed to gravitate back to Stantons top line 681 and 881's. I may just have been a sucker for the KOOL individual freq responces plots that came with each one?

Sal, lower-life is just my silly spin on how the hi-end audiophile community considers moving magnet types - in comparison to far more expensive moving coils.
 

Sal1950

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Sal, lower-life is just my silly spin on how the hi-end audiophile community considers moving magnet types - in comparison to far more expensive moving coils.
AH I get it. LOL
I was thinking on the technical.

My fav needle was the Stanton 881S, beyond the joke about the graph, it would track perfectly a 1g and it's compliance matched very well with the ultra lite arm on my SLT HK table. The shibata styls was supposed to handle the grooves the best, etc. So again my preference very well might have been that all the numbers were right, a objective type guy was always lurking in me somewhere. LOL
 
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TBone

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AH I get it. LOL
I was thinking on the technical.

My fav needle was the Stanton 881S, beyond the joke about the graph, it would track perfectly a 1g and it's compliance matched very well with the ultra lite arm on my SLT HK table. The shibata styls was supposed to handle the grooves the best, etc. So again my preference very well might have been that all the numbers were right, a objective type guy was always lurking in me somewhere. LOL

Heavy tracking forces bother me so, they are not as necessary as many claim ... and I'm well aware that higher tracking forces are less prone to miss-tracking and hence vinyl damage, than too low a force. But again, many (most?) vinyl-philes don't understand or pay attention to the relationship between tracking force and generator positioning, which is key to any cartridges success. The idea is to put just enough VTF so that the internal generator, either coils and/or magnet, stay in their most optimum position during play. When breaking-in a new cart, I generally run it at it's highest recommended VTF to start, and as time passes, decrease it accordingly. After about 5/10 hours of play, I start the measuring process/test records ...

In todays world, I simply don't understand how anyone can forgo the measuring process and simply think(and claim) they've achieved optimum VTA/SRA and azimuth. The criticality of azimuth is highly dependent on stylus profile, and I'm not a big fan of the methodology used with currently available Azimuth setting tools. Few realize, with pivoting arms, any deviance away from the arm being parallel to the platter, influences azimuth.

As is generally accepted, ~92degree optimum SRA setting (I prefer ~93degrees) is as important as the arm is capable, and IMO, few arms are that capable. Most arms simply resonate way too much to be able to hear slight differences, and many arms don't measure as people claim they sound. Kills me how so many vinyl-philes claim to hear BIG differences with slight SRA settings using many questionable arms, including some popular and expensive SME arms, which I consider (and are measured as) being far to coloured to be nearly that transparent.

The topic of Anti-skate bias ... well, let's leave that for another day ... and to me, its not about being either a moving coil or moving magnet which proves to be "best" by default, its farrrrr more about the generators moving mass.

But measurements often tell the tale ... therefore I think it critical to measure any cart/arm/turntables/phono-stage. Without that data, you're only guessing, but since near every vinyl-phile prefers to "guess" and talk the subjective talk ... well ...
 
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