• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Shouldn’t we be looking more at PA speakers?

There’s a subculture of people who use cinema or PA speakers at home.* The problem for most of us is they’re mostly big and ugly.

*I guess I’m in it, given the 4 JBL CBT surrounds in our family room!
Can you share photos of those JBL surrounds? How do you like them? Always wondered about those.
 
Single.

Here's a link to the published response curve: https://products.electrovoice.com/b...Column_System_Datasheet_51_en_27096630923.pdf
Different EQ modes give different results, of course, but I don't think anyone could say the HF response looks good.


Chris
Hmm, ok…I have one set up in my listening room right now, I don’t really hear any issues in the FR. Maybe I’ll fire up REW and take a few measurements.
Well, I took a couple of measurements of my Evolve 50 from about 5’ away and 5’ from the floor. On-axis and 45 deg off-axis:
IMG_0791.jpeg


Pretty impressive dispersion I think…the elevated treble also makes sense for a speaker designed to project sound over a long distance. I’m sure I could probably eq this thing pretty flat just with it’s onboard tone controls.
 
Well, I took a couple of measurements of my Evolve 50 from about 5’ away and 5’ from the floor. On-axis and 45 deg off-axis:
View attachment 344509

Pretty impressive dispersion I think…the elevated treble also makes sense for a speaker designed to project sound over a long distance. I’m sure I could probably eq this thing pretty flat just with it’s onboard tone controls.

This is what the manual shows for presets. Isn’t that the goal? Good dispersion and then eq to taste?

1706060528664.png
 
I’ve wanted to make a mttm with morel cat378 and eminence b102, mainly for 15’ mlp (main listening position).
 

I remember seeing this a while back but somehow just remembered. Thoughts?
 
Thoughts?
I have a habit of listening to “less room.” Although my speakers (SEOS24+15") are smaller than 4722.
Dynamic capabilities (which some scoff at) are also sometimes used:D
I don't know how (for ears))) the two tweeters will interfere.
I wonder what the minimum listening distance is on above
For "normal" 2ways crossed below 1k about ten feet or more is ok IME.
With the orange and red amps it should look great and deserves a quality paint job! Or vinyl-wrap must be very careful.
 
Thanks for sharing. What’s interesting is that it’s just “eight 3.5-inch neodymium high-frequency drivers and a proprietary waveguide that provides an impressive 120° of horizontal coverage and 40° of vertical coverage”.

We used to laugh at soundbars and their small woofers, but maybe the tech is getting to the point where we can do a lot more interesting things.

Do you just have one? Most people think that the ultra wide horizontal dispersion is bad for home listening but maybe with them in stereo works fine.



I have tried doing a nearfield measurement and running standard Dirac versus just doing normal 9 point measurement at the listening point and doing a full bandwidth correction. I like the latter.

In my particular room which just happens to be “perfect” for the 901’s, an *electrical* measurement of the factory equalizer versus Dirac with a 10 dB style Harman boost gave me this:

View attachment 343203

The Bose 901 Series VI sounds better than it has any right to, especially when size and appearance is a concern. I think that the 901’s sounded poor because
A) the equalizer was seen as optional and not understood as a requirement by many. A lot were sold on looks not performance.
B) the older equalizers could overload with high input voltage and work best with low input voltage and high gain amplifiers.
C) there is a lot of sighted bias. Think about the most famous speaker designers you know of the late 20th century. How many of them were people of color? The 901’s came out in the late 1960s and Boston public schools would still fight over desegregation years later in the early 70’s!
D) Because Bose didn’t publish measurements and they sued Consumer Reports (which was justified since the author had a conflict of interest in that he was trying to commercialize his own speaker at the time, instructed the review panel to pick the speaker that matched the reference sound as opposed to the speaker they preferred), people assumed that the 6 generations were largely cosmetic other than the sealed vs. ported, and magazines weren’t enthusiastic about reviewing them.

I will be sending the “901 VI ver 2” To Amir. I am trying to convince him to break his tradition of only testing in mono. :)
I have 901s series I, II, and IV. with mini DSPs from Deer Creek preset with Bose EQ curves. The IVs sound very good, and she has them in her sewing room, which is fairly large. The others are not currently in use. I always thought the 901s were exceptionally good on the natural human voice. Things like choral music, not closely miked.
 
I bought an EV Evolve 50m for an upcoming wedding and to use for outdoor parties etc. EV’s data:
View attachment 343119
From listening to it beside my Genelec’s, it sounds quite balanced and I don’t hear anything that makes me doubt EV’s graph…but these PA manufacturers max spl specs are pure fantasy imo.
View attachment 343121

Well, the wedding is over and done. It was outdoors at my recreational property. I used a single Evolve 50 for the cellist and the dance (~120 guests) . My nearest neighbours are about 750m away and we STILL had a noise complaint, lol. I guess it’s not a party untill the cops show up! The EV worked perfect and everyone was happy with the sound, so a success I guess. :)
 
But aren’t PA speakers of 2024 different than ones from yesteryear?

Yes, I find much of that users opinions on this matter dated.

I have a pair of PA two ways, they are DIY, the VBS 10.2 loudspeaker from MTG-Designs. They are basically just loud studio monitors with exceptional rendering of audio, albiet a bit more narrow than I'm used to, spacing them out a bit more than my wider speakers seemed to help.


There's not much to say about them that can't be said for any good neutral speakers. They have quite exceptional clarity and easily the best vocal layer seperating that I have personally heard. However, and IDK how much sighted bias plays into this, but it's hard to shake that I'm listening to a horn. They don't really sound like they integrate with my room at all, there is a noticable lack of room reflections compared to my other stuff. I put them away for awhile but I'm getting them out again because I want to play some stuff loud again :) Keeping in mind I'm super picky with speakers and will call out anything that bothers me at all, I doubt most people would care about what I consider my only complaint.

Suffice to say I don't think my speakers here are typical pa speakers, the performance seen and heard is better than most PA speakers I've heard, and I've heard a lot as I worked in live sound for awhile.
 
Yea, our room is a big influencer.................

Horns can be very direct (even eq flat) due to a better signal to noise ratio, similar to a near field vs far field in regards to where you are at and how much of the sound you are hearing is direct vs reflected......
 
everyone was happy with the sound, so a success I guess.
Well, everyone at the party...the neighbours, not so much :D
Thoughts?
The LS50 in the recordings sound 'nice', and it is just a binaural recording so is hardly the last word on the matter, but they have that loudspeaker sound. There is something about the immediacy of the 4722 that sounds more true to life, probably from less room vs more direct sound, while at the same time it has a characteristic sound of its own.

I often feel that home speakers tend to 'fall apart' with sound coherence at lower levels than I would like. I am not sure this is distortion as much as it is too much room being added when you turn up the volume. I imagine part of the immediacy and clarity of the 4722 is, low distortion aside, the direct nature of the sound.

But....and it is a big but, do you want those speakers in your room?
 
Last edited:
Well, everyone at the party...the neighbours, not so much :D

The LS50 in the recordings sound 'nice', and it is just a binaural recording so is hardly the last word on the matter, but they have that loudspeaker sound. There is something about the immediacy of the 4722 that sounds more true to life, probably from less room vs more direct sound, while at the same time it has a characteristic sound of its own.

I often feel that home speakers tend to 'fall apart' with sound coherence at lower levels than I would like. I am not sure this is distortion as much as it is too much room being added when you turn up the volume. I imagine part of the immediacy and clarity of the 4722 is, low distortion aside, the direct nature of the sound.

But....and it is a big but, do you want those speakers in your room?
I think this site has explained something that I encountered bu couldn’t explain.

I accidentally discovered near field by using some decent but not great bookshelf speakers as computer speakers while digitizing vinyl. All I required of them was strong highs to expose surface noise, but what I got was something close to a headphone effect. Quite mesmerizing.

I think horns can do this at a greater listening distance. I think this explains why horns can be so seductive, despite having less than flat response. If you require an objective attribute of speakers that eludes measurement, it might be near field effect.
 
Back
Top Bottom