Shouldn’t we be looking more at PA speakers?

[RobL]

I'm afraid I can't agree with your impressions of the EV. I found the (rough) treble had a weird phasey quality as you move around. A quick glance at the published frequency response shows what I'm talking about. It ain't pretty.


Chris

Were you listening to a single or a pair? I’ve heard that column speakers playing stereo can be pretty phasey.

 

[Flaesh]

View attachment 344111
View attachment 344112

https://www.spinorama.org/speakers/JBL C222/JBL/index_vendor.html

 

[napfkuchen]

A friend of mine uses a pair of Bose L1 Pro together with two different sized Bose subwoofers. Bose gets some hate from audiophiles but they certainly know how to Design PA products and nc headphones. The last time I heard this system (only with one subwoofer) was at a venue with about 300 people. The effortless output and even sound distribution were exceptional. After the Event I asked him to really crank it up for a short time... Amazing for such a small system. My Genelec subwoofer is similar in size with laughable SPL capability in comparison.
For me this changed brand perception for the better.

 

[Duke]

At a friend's attic, F215+ :

https://www-audionet-com-tw.transla..._sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=fr&_x_tr_hl=ru&_x_tr_pto=wapp, JBL C222 :
View attachment 344109

I'm curious about the short stands in the upper image; seems to me the center of the compression driver would have been right about at seated ear height without them. Do you know what the thinking was behind using the stands? Maybe they're 2.5 ways, and he's putting the midpoint between compression driver and horn at seated ear height?

On the other hand, the MHM format speakers in the lower image look to me like they would benefit from short stands to get the center of the compression driver closer to seated ear level. Looks like that's from an audio show of some kind, so unless they told you their reasoning I wouldn't expect you to know.

Both of those speakers LOOK well thought-out to me, otherwise I probably wouldn't have noticed the counter-intuitive (to me at least) compression driver heights.

 

[RayDunzl]

I guess Mitch Barnett aka @mitchco needs no introduction.

Here is (was) his home setup (I think):

 

[gnarly]

One thing about horns, ones that are used from midrange up...... say anything above 600Hz......is that I've yet to measure one of any kind, that was at its finest directly on zero degree axis...horizontal or vertical. Mouth termination issues get magnified when measured at strict perpendicular and centered, on-axis, ime.

About 10 degrees off-axis. is generally the best angle I've found to use as the tuning reference axis, to obtain best overall best set of polars. (and a nice listening reference axis.)
Applies to vertical too, especially for more axisymmetric horns.
So, I guess what I'm saying, is I'd take that into consideration if tuning to a seated position.

 

[Duke]

One thing about horns, ones that are used from midrange up...... say anything above 600Hz......is that I've yet to measure one of any kind, that was at its finest directly on zero degree axis...horizontal or vertical. Mouth termination issue get magnified when measured at strict perpendicular and centered, on-axis, ime.

About 10 degrees off-axis. is generally the best angle I've found to use as the tuning reference axis, to obtain best overall best set of polars. (and a nice listening reference axis.)
Applies to vertical too, especially for more axisymmetric horns.
So, I guess what I'm saying, is I'd take that into consideration if tuning to a seated position.

Thanks!

I've been designing for off-axis-in-the-horizontal listening (typically fifteen degrees off), but hadn't carried that over to the vertical.

 

[Flaesh]

Do you know what the thinking was behind using the stands?

I don't remember.

Maybe they're 2.5 ways

Yes, "Below 250Hz both LF drivers shall operate together to produce low frequencies whilst above 250Hz only the upper driver shall operate to reproduce the midrange up to the crossover point." https://martin-audio.com/downloads/archive/datasheets/f215+datasheet.pdf
Sounds good enough\somewhat similar to my home system; I would prefer a larger horn and a lower crossover, but my friend doesn't want to change speakers.
The photo (taken from open sources) is old, two 21" subwoofers in IB in front wall have been added since then.

speakers in the lower image

I haven't heard C 222, all responsibility lies with the exhibitors)))

 

[Flaesh]

Here is (was) his home setup

Yes, from a different angle. https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/revi...ker-comparison-with-binaural-recordings-r768/
By the way, the link contains not only photos, but also an excellent article about comparing 4722 with LS50.

 

[Theta]

This is actually an issue: PA speakers are for big rooms (like a warehouse), while HiFi are for small rooms (like US midwest living rooms). PA speaker construction does not consider the room acoustics of small rooms.


Even a cheap 12-inch or 15-inch woofer probably distorts way less at home audio levels than an expensive 6.5-inch woofer.

Cheap 12 inch or 15 inch woofer actually sound better than 2 or 3 6.5 inch expensive woofer and calculating the total surface area of multiple small woofers is totally misleading.

 

[Flaesh]

PA drivers for subwoofers makes sense. I tend to agree, except that they don't often do well below 40hz

Maybe I did everything wrong??..

I think we are discussing sound reproduction in a moderate sized room(??)

 

[pablolie]

I guess if you value SPL over finesse.

 

[norman bates]

lol, I had a single speaker setup like above, post #65
double eminence magnum 15lf crossed 24db LR @ 750hz to jbl 2435 beryllium diaphragm on a jbl 2384 horn (much horn eq needed).

Very fun system, not the most delicate, but very very good.......

 

[gnarly]

've been designing for off-axis-in-the-horizontal listening (typically fifteen degrees off), but hadn't carried that over to the vertical.

Sweet. I've oscillated between 10 and 15 degrees horizontal many times, ...maybe I just need to lock down on 12.5 degrees haha.
I found vertical has the same on-ax issue, when I built an outdoor mast with mics vertically spaced.

 

[Flaesh]

Regarding ready-made PA\cinema subwoofers - they may be used in a room with good results like the one shown above. Ports can be blocked. Choose bigger boxes and better drivers. Room gain or plain wave radiation will help.

you value SPL over finesse.

We need finesse defition! (in relation to sound reproduction). Quite sufficient SPL capabilities can be considered a bonus when using a large format driver, 15" midbass and proportionate subwoofers.

 

[Flaesh]

double eminence magnum 15lf crossed 24db LR @ 750hz

Is it 2.5 way?.. 750Hz seems too high for a bottom driver

 

[dasdoing]

yes

 

[norman bates]

Is it 2.5 way?.. 750Hz seems too high for a bottom driver

Nope, was just fine at 10' away, and room filling also.
But yes, highs did pull to the horn.

Impactful bass even at medium volume, no subwoofer required.

I often yearn for more punch (midbass) with what I have now (hard to leave that setup), but my mids/highs are better now (12" crossing to nicer jbl pt waveguide at 1.2khz).

JBL 338785-002 - 12" x 12" 100° Horn Lens 1.5" Throat | Reverb

Brand new. Replacement JBL 338785-002 - 12" x 12" 100° Horn Lens 1.5" Throat. This Listing is for 1.

reverb.com

 

[Flaesh]

Driver integration might be a problem if your MLP isn't far.

I very appreciate the driver integration; low crossed 2ways usually pretty good in this regard.
Line arrays of small drivers are interesting also, but I haven't had a chance to listen to such speakers.

they definitely clash with most home decor.

domesticated 2360A (I couldn't find a pic of painted gold, that decorate someone's interior))

As to why Amir or Erin don't test them?

Amir tested https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/jbl-srx835p-reviewed-powered-monitor.25300/

PA speakers (drivers) for

All Unison Research Maxes made of PA drivers and waveguides for example

Nope

Wouldn't 2.5 add some delicacy?..

 

[norman bates]

meh, sounded fine.

"You have not lived until you experience a speaker with such high dynamics."

from the referenced above jbl review.

JBL SRX835P Reviewed (Powered Monitor)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the JBL SRX835P "PA/DJ" powered speaker. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $1,699. Note: our company, Madrona Digital is a dealer for Harman and hence JBL line. So feel free to read whatever bias you feel necessary in my subjective...

www.audiosciencereview.com