I don't need a rig . im not tone deaf. I am rig. before i got into headphones i memorized the tones of all microphones on the market audibly and measurement wise. headphones are easy mode for me.Just like the DT990 is known for its elevated bass/lower mids emphasis and treble peak
I agree the K701/K702/Q701 are peaky and can hardly be called 'linear' but the DT990 certainly is not that either despite you believing this based on a plot of a DT990 with completely flattened pads on a specific type of rig. So flattened that one would not use it in that condition because it hurts the ears as the pinna is completely compressed against the driver.
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Sennheiser HD800S Review (Headphone)
- Thread starter amirm
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@solderdude What do you think about the 9kHz dip got filled? Amir's measurement also showed the 9kHz dip, this makes two different rigs having same dip there. Is it coincidence or there really is problem in 9kHz and kinda get fixed in HD8XX? Also do you think they will keep improving HD8XX or just sell it like this since they announced it and showed the graph? I would hope they can keep improving it but don't think it will happen.
edahl
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I haven't felt qualified to say, so thanks for saying it for meI suspect the dip at 1-2kHz is a side effect of the differently tuned resonator in the middle of the driver used and not really intentional. He just claims it is.
I hope you're right that they'll keep improving it, but have we got any precedence to make it plausible? If they were still tweaking it, I'd expect them to acknowledge that. Do you think the FR is overall an improvement over the 800S as it stands?
Perhaps it would be fine if they kept the "dual resonator" while not messing with acoustic impedance?
I'd also like to see a comparison to the 800S square wave response/impulse response, because as I understand it that has an impact on imaging. That's not to say I think Sennheiser would compromise the imaging of the 800S to tweak the response a little.
Hey, I'm not saying the K702 is perfect, but the graph I showed you shows that it is a smooth frequency response (easily EQ'd), as in no sharp dips or peaks, except north of 10kHz. So I don't think you should keep saying the DT990 is the smoothest frequency response for all the reasons I mentioned in my previous post. I haven't looked at your videos and graphs because I'm not a fan of vids and your graphs are of an origin I do not know of......because the K702 has only be measured by Crinacle on a valid Harman rig (no one else has measured it on a GRAS Harman compatible rig yet although I will be sending my K702 to Oratory soon'ish).....and I've shown you Crinacle graphs of the K702 in my last post. No, but I'm not gonna argue with you further on the "K702 frequency response smoothness" as I've shown all & said all I can on it.....but the main point is I think you're overblowing the smoothness of the DT990 worn pad frequency response (for all the reasons I mentioned in my last post), which is the reason I responded to your post in the first place. DT990 is not the best thing since sliced bread unfortunately.
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solderdude
Grand Contributor
Funny as you keep on using plots made on various rigs to make your personal points.
On top of that you also draw incorrect conclusions based on plots and make it look like what you are saying is science.
That 'dip' is a measurement artifact. One that does not exist in real life as the brain 'knows' where their personal 'dip' is. That dip is sharper than the width of the 'frequency bands' in your ear as well.
In reality (when measuring what comes from the driver) then you will notice a peak at that very same frequency. There only appears to be a dip there depending on the rig and positioning of the headphone as well.
The dip that appears to be filled in may well mean the HD8XX is even sharper sounding. The 10kHz peak that is there in reality may be even harder.
The 6kHz peak is responsible for sibilance, the 10kHz peak for some 'sharpish' edge in certain recordings. When you lower that peak too much it will also lower the 'HD800 magic' so should not be lowered too much. The 6kHz peak is problematic and should be dealt with.
I would have to hear it first. As I have been somewhat in the loop now and then during the development I hope to get to hear the proto and vent my opinion of it to Drop and Jermo.
phoenixsong
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I'm not the one saying their drivers change with burn in. On top of this, Beyerdynamic isn't known to have the best quality control despite their German background
If you look at measurements of their flagship headphones, they tend to have treble spikes and driver ringing issues compared to the likes of Sennheiser and others. Anyway, I was simply referring to the fact that they have different variants, even apart from all these- 80ohm, 25o ohm, 600ohm, pro and premium versions, black editions, chrome editions etcetera, which have been shown to have measurement differences as well, quality control aside. Please do not accuse others of accusing lol, and do your homework properly if you wish to do so (I'm just a casual)phoenixsong
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On second thought, I believe you may have replied to the wrong person. Please feel free to ignore the above post
I did just that, so I will accept my scolding in good grace as I should indeed direct my sanctimony more accuratelyOn second thought, I believe you may have replied to the wrong person. Please feel free to ignore the above post
phoenixsong
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Such graciousness is hard to find on the Internet. I appreciate itI did just that, so I will accept my scolding in good grace as I should indeed direct my sanctimony more accurately
On second thought, I believe you may have replied to the wrong person. Please feel free to ignore the above post
I’ve also deleted my post as it’s plain that no contribution on my part is going to burst the bubble of audiophile mythology that the intended recipient inhabits.
Lol! "I am rig", classic. Hey, by chance have you heard of the Dunning-Kruger effect?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect
DT990 either pro or premium version has good neutral mids and elevated bass and highs. It's a bit v shaped and fun sounding just as it has always been. If one thinks DT990 pro sounds good, great, it's actually nice sounding. But if one thinks dt990pro is completely neutral end game headphones and also swears by his extraordinary auditory memory and extraordinary trained ears, it must be a joke. Or that person's listening is not very well trained. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
My brand new HD800S were just delivered, unboxed and tested. This headphones have been reviewed to death; I won't bore you with yet another long post. Only a quick list of my impressions for those that never heard them:
- Yes, there's something special there. The spaciousness is very nice and easily perceived. You don't have to have golden ears or years of experience detecting micro nuances in the music. I've compared them to my HD6XX and QC35II (also great headphones). Is this spaciousness 1400$ worth? You have to decide for yourself.
- Without EQ, they sound definitely bright (Mahler, Symphony No.5 Adagietto --> the violins are maybe too penetrating), but bearable (you wouldn't pay that price for such a FR, but you don't have to commit suicide if your Equalizer APO stops working). Amir's EQ settings improve things.
- The Motu M2 and Qudelix 5K have more than enough power to drive them for me. In particular I was concerned about the M2 (for 300 ohms the max power measured by Amir was 22mW - not that great -). See the picture below while hearing at reasonable volume (50% no EQ ~ 70% EQ - This one was hearing Sex Pistols - Anarchy in the UK - for a change).
- Yes, what you see in the picture is a connection nightmare: The HD800S standard 4.4mm pentaconn <-> 4.4mm TRRRS to 2.5mm TRRS adapter <-> 2.5mm TRRS to 3.5mm TRS <-> 3.5mm TRS to 6.3mm TRS. Since I will drive them mostly with the portable Qudelix (2.5mm balanced), I have to use the 4.4mm pentaconn. Swapping that one for the 6.3mm cable is NOT something to do twice a day.
- The standard cables are (for me) much too long and thick. I don't run around my house with wired headphones. 1m / 3ft is usually more than enough for me. Given that they sell for 300$ (!!!) I plan to solder some cables and connectors and sell the default ones.
Oh yes, I forgot!
- The original box is absurdly oversized. Even bigger than the HD6XX's one. They can learn from the Bose QC35II here. Destination: garage / attic / rental storage unit.
I got a 50cm balanced to 2.5mm cable for 29 USD on aliexpress and just use that with the Qudelix. It has tons of power in balanced so not sure if I will even bother with a new desktop stack now.
Rest fits my views 100%. Only thing I am anoyed with is that I waited so long
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You can get pretty inexpensive 4.4 to 2.5mm and 4.4 to 6.3mm adapters (inexpensive given cost of the phones) I have both- cant recall where from or exact cost but probs 6 inch including connectors and will save that connection hell. Would have been ebay/ amazon shipped from a chinese seller .
Thanks to Amir for reviewing the HD 800S, as well as the RME ADI-2.
I finally ponied up a donation and encourage anyone sitting on the fence to support this informative and entertaining project.
I received the phones a couple days ago, after a fedex delay.
My impressions are for potential buyers, as I benefitted from scores of reviews.
In short: I dig the sound!
I came from HD 600’s that I credit with starting me on a journey into hifi. It was the hum of Hendrix’s amp that I had not previously heard on Are You Experienced that was an ah ha moment. While the 800S’s represent a significant step up to me, they also reinforce how good the 600’s are for the money, relatively speaking.
Are the 800’s worth the money? Based on test results, probably not, but climbing the hifi mountain is not necessarily rational; diminishing returns and all that. Yet, the listening experience brings a smile to my face.
My hearing is pretty well shot above 10k, so any problems up there not relevant. As a drummer, I enjoy full, tight bass and “punchy” drums. Out of the box the phones were pretty nice, but I knew I would be EQing the phones. Hardware purity means nothing to me; it’s about sound I enjoy and that’s why I got the ADI-2m as well. Flexibility.
The 800S’s are revelatory to me. This can be problematic on poor recordings. Especially with bass, differences can be pronounced. Return to Forever’s Where Have I Known You Before lacked bottom. To the Stars sounds great! Weckl knows how to produce drums. With EQ and the right production, there is plenty of bass for me and it’s tight and clear, with impact.
Beatles vocals on remixes (the horror!) have never sounded better. Diana Krall, vocals and piano gorgeous. Conversely, All Thing Must Pass sounds pretty bad (what a weird mix). So, you get it all, good and bad.
To test a modern production, I listened to the new Tame Impala. Wow, the numerous layers can be individually ascertained along with their position. Very cool! I am going to enjoy some ambient with these. Looking forward to some classical, too.
Very impressive to hear the studio room on some tracks. I could almost picture Johnny Hartmann at the mic.
As an aside, I heard some LCD-4’s a couple weeks ago during my research and was disappointed; while having more low end, it seemed flubby, with the rest of the presentation lacking the detail of the 800S’s. But that’s just me...
Enough subjective blather, I reckon. These are not the phones for bass heads, obviously. But for a great balance with amazing detail, the Sennheiser’s work for me. My 600’s have lasted nigh on 20 years. Hope the 800S’s are as robust.
Thanks to ASR for allowing me to have a good idea of what to expect from buying these phones without an audition.
Very happy with the enveloping, smooth, detailed sound.
I finally ponied up a donation and encourage anyone sitting on the fence to support this informative and entertaining project.
I received the phones a couple days ago, after a fedex delay.
My impressions are for potential buyers, as I benefitted from scores of reviews.
In short: I dig the sound!
I came from HD 600’s that I credit with starting me on a journey into hifi. It was the hum of Hendrix’s amp that I had not previously heard on Are You Experienced that was an ah ha moment. While the 800S’s represent a significant step up to me, they also reinforce how good the 600’s are for the money, relatively speaking.
Are the 800’s worth the money? Based on test results, probably not, but climbing the hifi mountain is not necessarily rational; diminishing returns and all that. Yet, the listening experience brings a smile to my face.
My hearing is pretty well shot above 10k, so any problems up there not relevant. As a drummer, I enjoy full, tight bass and “punchy” drums. Out of the box the phones were pretty nice, but I knew I would be EQing the phones. Hardware purity means nothing to me; it’s about sound I enjoy and that’s why I got the ADI-2m as well. Flexibility.
The 800S’s are revelatory to me. This can be problematic on poor recordings. Especially with bass, differences can be pronounced. Return to Forever’s Where Have I Known You Before lacked bottom. To the Stars sounds great! Weckl knows how to produce drums. With EQ and the right production, there is plenty of bass for me and it’s tight and clear, with impact.
Beatles vocals on remixes (the horror!) have never sounded better. Diana Krall, vocals and piano gorgeous. Conversely, All Thing Must Pass sounds pretty bad (what a weird mix). So, you get it all, good and bad.
To test a modern production, I listened to the new Tame Impala. Wow, the numerous layers can be individually ascertained along with their position. Very cool! I am going to enjoy some ambient with these. Looking forward to some classical, too.
Very impressive to hear the studio room on some tracks. I could almost picture Johnny Hartmann at the mic.
As an aside, I heard some LCD-4’s a couple weeks ago during my research and was disappointed; while having more low end, it seemed flubby, with the rest of the presentation lacking the detail of the 800S’s. But that’s just me...
Enough subjective blather, I reckon. These are not the phones for bass heads, obviously. But for a great balance with amazing detail, the Sennheiser’s work for me. My 600’s have lasted nigh on 20 years. Hope the 800S’s are as robust.
Thanks to ASR for allowing me to have a good idea of what to expect from buying these phones without an audition.
Very happy with the enveloping, smooth, detailed sound.
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I've been using Roon for the last month, so have been using Oratory's EQ since I can plug it straight into Roon (that's such a great feature!) over Sonarworks. I think I actually like his EQ better. Not sure what magic he has done, it just sounds more enjoyable on these headphones. From some listening tests (done via Spotify and volume matching APO/Sonarworks pregain), it sounds like the low end is more emphasized/fuller on Oratory which is probably why it sounds so great to me. But the EQ curves don't show that, in fact Sonarworks looks much more bass heavy. I feel like there is something odd going on with the Sonarworks filters - I know they do some sort of low end filtering specifically on HD800s to prevent distortion, so that might be it. So maybe it's more accurate, but Oratory's EQ sounds really great for just listening to music.
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