Sennheiser HD800S Review (Headphone)

[HereYaGo]

Amir's graph for dt990 is nothing new. That is how they measure before they burn in. Some people don't believe in burn in. You have to actually use them. Also, I've owned premiums. I wouldn't say they are smoother. They roll off the high treble and air which makes them appear smoother. I didn't like them nearly as much as pro version. No sparkle.

 

[phoenixsong]

Amir's graph for dt990 is nothing new. That is how they measure before they burn in. Some people don't believe in burn in. You have to actually use them.
View attachment 113682

That's kind of rash to attribute to burn in. There are other factors including pad differences (which can be huge) even if it were the same pair/unit of headphones being measured

 

[phoenixsong]

Amir's graph for dt990 is nothing new. That is how they measure before they burn in. Some people don't believe in burn in. You have to actually use them.
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The massive distortion measured in Amir's DT990pro review shouldn't be disregarded though

 

[HereYaGo]

That's kind of rash to attribute to burn in. There are other factors including pad differences (which can be huge) even if it were the same pair/unit of headphones being measured

Depends on how you define burn in. All that matters is they don't sound right until you use the pads for a month or two. And at that point they measure smoother and cleaner than any headphone on the market. which is obviously showed vs the 800s in previous post. dt990 have better bass extension and emphasis than hd800s and much smoother treble after burn in. Way too many people go around with the herp derp harsh highs they trash i returned them after first listen blah blah blah. same with the premium are smoother lie when in reality they just roll off the high frequencies out of the box.

 

[phoenixsong]

Depends on how you define burn in. All that matters is they don't sound right until you use the pads for a month or two. And at that point they measure smoother and cleaner than any headphone on the market. which is obviously showed vs the 800s in previous post. Way too many people go around with the herp derp harsh highs they trash i returned them blah blah blah. same with the premium are smoother lie when in reality they just roll off the high frequencies out of the box.

Not sure about the Dt990s, but I did try the DT880s and DT1990s as demos in a music store. As demos they would have been used plenty, but I still found their sound thin and bright. Really wished I could like them, but I just couldn't

 

[HereYaGo]

Not sure about the Dt990s, but I did try the DT880s and DT1990s as demos in a music store. As demos they would have been used plenty, but I still found their sound thin and bright. Really wished I could like them, but I just couldn't

HD800s are thin. dt990 may lack sub bass but they definitely have a bass boost.

 

[phoenixsong]

Depends on how you define burn in. All that matters is they don't sound right until you use the pads for a month or two. And at that point they measure smoother and cleaner than any headphone on the market. which is obviously showed vs the 800s in previous post. dt990 have better bass extension and emphasis than hd800s and much smoother treble after burn in. Way too many people go around with the herp derp harsh highs they trash i returned them after first listen blah blah blah. same with the premium are smoother lie when in reality they just roll off the high frequencies out of the box.

And nah, to me it matters in correctly identifying changes and attributing them to their respective causes

 

[phoenixsong]

HD800s are thin. dt990 may lack sub bass but they definitely have a bass boost.
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Seems like you didn't read my post properly. I was clearly referring to the DT880 and DT1990

 

[HereYaGo]

Seems like you didn't read my post properly. I was clearly referring to the DT880 and DT1990

yeah not sure why you are talking about those two trashphones. dt880 have no bass extension and roll off a lot. dt1990 have trash piercing 8khz.

 

[HereYaGo]

as you can see red is dt880. rolls off bass and treble extension. dt990 in green have greatest bass boost. and dt1990 is in middle of bass between the two and has piecing trashy 4khz cut and 8khz peak everyone talks about. It really helps to learn to read graphs. altho ive listened to them all the graphs tell you so you dont have to even listen to them.

 

[phoenixsong]

as you can see red is dt880. rolls off bass and treble extension. dt990 in green have greatest bass boost. and dt1990 is in middle of bass between the two and has piecing trashy 4khz cut and 8khz peak everyone talks about. It really helps to learn to read graphs. altho ive listened to them all the graphs tell you so you dont have to even listen to them.

View attachment 113684

I'm glad my hearing is serving me well as it should

 

[phoenixsong]

But it seems like supposed burn in does nothing to save them?

 

[HereYaGo]

But it seems like supposed burn in does nothing to save them?

find a smoother measurement than dt990 after burn in you can't. if you could read the damn graph you wouldnt keep ignoring this basic stuff.

 

[solderdude]

@HereYaGo talks more trash than what he finds the DT880 and DT1990 to be.

Burn-in suggests the driver itself changes its properties over time. It doesn't. I have never seen any evidence of this.
The DT990 changes sound signature depending on pad thickness.
Lows increase and because of this treble becomes relatively softer.
Depending on one's pinna as well the treble sound changes when the driver gets closer to the ear.
You realize that the measurements with the 'worn pads' is when the pads foam is completely gone. At this point the DT990 has become a very uncomfortable ON-EAR headphone that hurts the ears. Much further compressed than the ones you are wearing in your 'professional reviews'.
As soon as you put on fresh pads it measures exactly as the day it left the factory.
This fact alone is evidence that there is NO burn-in. You may 'find' this is burn-in or call it that way but then you are using the word in an incorrect way.

The 'trash' HD800/HD800S do not do this because the pads are very thin. So this headphone does NOT change tonality when the pads thin a bit.

 

[Robbo99999]

find a smoother measurement than dt990 after burn in you can't. if you could read the damn graph you wouldnt keep ignoring this basic stuff.

AKG K702 is pretty smooth according to Crinacle's measurement, and this measurement I'm displaying here is not an average, it's just one measurement, so it doesn't have the smoothing effect that Oratory's graphs exhibit (by virtue that Oratory's graphs are an average of many measurements):

So while your worn pad DT990 graph might be quite smooth, you probably can't claim it's the smoothest frequency response because it's an average of many measurements. There's zero smoothing applied in the above K702 graph, you get to choose how much smoothing is applied in his graphing tool, and I set it to zero, so that's the raw measurement right there, and just one measurement. It's not smooth north of 10kHz, but Oratory's approach of moving the headphone around a little and averaging many measurements would smooth out that 10kHz+ area to some degree.

I just think it's a bit dangerous of you to say that DT990 has the smoothest frequency response, hence this post of mine.

EDIT: your graph also has a massive spread on the y-axis, making the response look a lot smoother than it actually is, unlike the zoomed in y-axis (low spread) of my Crinacle graph I'm showing in my post here). Your graph has a 60dB spread on the y-axis whereas my Crinacle graph above is zoomed in and has only 29dB spread - it's zoomed in twice as much.

 

[edahl]

Hmm...

View attachment 113673

More subbass is a welcome highlight. The HD8XX’s upper treble looks to be properly filled in as well, especially at 9KHz where there is currently a severe dip. The increase in presence and lower treble at 2.5 to 4.5KHz should help too. But that dip at 1 to 2 KHz, when it is already lacking presence there, may take things just too far. That is an area where the human ear is especially sensitive, it being the upper midrange after all. Seeing that flaw, $1100 is a hard pill to swallow unless I could hear it first.

Will at Drop made the claim that the 1-2k dip is desirable exactly because the is particularly sensitive there. Its hard for me to really evaluate that, I guess I should just mess around with a dip there on my headphones to see the impact. It's not an 800/S though (1990 Pro) so the context is different. I think the dip at 9k might actually be almost desirable, because it lessens the energy around 10k. The 8XX looks easier to EQ down to baseline, but I believe you still might want to do that.

As for the 990, it's not in the same league of headphones, however long one might spend looking at FR plots.

 

[HereYaGo]

AKG K702 is pretty smooth according to Crinacle's measurement, and this measurement I'm displaying here is not an average, it's just one measurement, so it doesn't have the smoothing effect that Oratory's graphs exhibit (by virtue that Oratory's graphs are an average of many measurements):
View attachment 113688
So while your worn pad DT990 graph might be quite smooth, you probably can't claim it's the smoothest frequency response because it's an average of many measurements. There's zero smoothing applied in the above K702 graph, you get to choose how much smoothing is applied in his graphing tool, and I set it to zero, so that's the raw measurement right there, and just one measurement. It's not smooth north of 10kHz, but Oratory's approach of moving the headphone around a little and averaging many measurements would smooth out that 10kHz+ area to some degree.

I just think it's a bit dangerous of you to say that DT990 has the smoothest frequency response, hence this post of mine.

EDIT: your graph also has a massive spread on the y-axis, making the response look a lot smoother than it actually is, unlike the zoomed in y-axis (low spread) of my Crinacle graph I'm showing in my post here). Your graph has a 60dB spread on the y-axis whereas my Crinacle graph above is zoomed in and has only 29dB spread - it's zoomed in twice as much.

k700 series is known for its hilarious 2 khz midrange unnatural tone. and strange 6khz peak

just to hit it home further

lol

 

[solderdude]

I suspect the dip at 1-2kHz is a side effect of the differently tuned resonator in the middle of the driver used and not really intentional. He just claims it is . The intention of this change was to make the peak around 6kHz a bit lower in amplitude.
The small dip around 1.5kHz will make it a hair less 'forward' sounding. And the HD800S isn't very forward sounding anyway
The + 2dB subbass boost (@ 30Hz) may be somewhat audible but is still far removed from any 'Harman type' bass.
Most bass note fundamentals are in the 50Hz range and there is almost no boost there.
It still is a welcome improvement, certainly when it measurable (not audible) changes distortion levels in the bass.
I have no idea where that 2nd resonator is placed, I suspect behind the driver.

The small increase in level between 2kHz and 5kHz will make it slightly more 'clarity' which also isn't a bad thing.
Treble energy between 5kHz.

It looks like the HD8XX has improved on bass extension (a few dB) which is a good thing. It sounds a little clearer (not as clear as the focal Clear) but the treble peak does not seem to be improved, in fact it seems even slightly higher except at the 'pain point' (6kHz peak) which is not lowered.
That was the intention of Drop. More (sub)bass, less treble peak and cheaper.
IMO they still aren't there. Bass levels have not increased and the treble peak (while improved by about 0.5dB) still isn't where it should be.
Fortunately there is still time to improve the proto that was sent by Sennheiser to evaluate. I hope they can take it a bit further.

 

[solderdude]

k700 series is known for its hilarious 2 khz midrange unnatural tone. and strange 6khz peak

Just like the DT990 is known for its elevated bass/lower mids emphasis and treble peak

I agree the K701/K702/Q701 are peaky and can hardly be called 'linear' but the DT990 certainly is not that either despite you believing this based on a plot of a DT990 with completely flattened pads on a specific type of rig. So flattened that one would not use it in that condition because it hurts the ears as the pinna is completely compressed against the driver.

 

[markanini]

AKG K612 sounds much smoother than the DT990. I couldn't hear anything that the DT990 did better, only the added harshness. Later I found out the AKG range is immune to pad thickness affecting the frequency response: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/headphone-pad-thickness-effect.20072/