Sennheiser HD800S Review (Headphone)

[Chagall]

And let’s be honest - even without hearing any content above 12k, grandpa actually listened to good music.

 

[FrantzM]

This is ridiculous.
I still listen to real life with the same ears I use to listen to my hifi.
I have seen this sort of comment before about compensating for age related hearing loss and there is not even a tiny glimmer of logic to it.
My reference is the outside world and the many, many more concerts I have been to since I was young and, hence, a much keener knowledge of what real acoustic music, as opposed to music from speakers, actually sounds like.
Any relationship with my age is more knowledge and experience. When I was young and had pretty well only heard music over speakers, and almost exclusively pop music at that, I am sure I would have liked the preference curve Harman have assembled from a lot of listeners.
Now I am very much more knowledgeable and experienced I definitely do not.
Talking preference back in the day nearly everybody I knew had the "loudness" contour on and/or the bass turned up. "Preference" IME has little to do with accurate reproduction.

Agree to a point ... I am with you with the

comment before about compensating for age related hearing loss and there is not even a tiny glimmer of logic to it.

OTOH , I find the Harman curve on headphones more in line with what I hear with live music...

Peace.

 

[Robbo99999]

DMS has made a wee filter to sit in the HD800 enclosure to tame the 6kHz peak, may be of use to some who eschew using eq

I tried the toilet paper mod which was just putting in one ply of toilet paper, and even though it doesn't have the same frequency response effect it is still about taming the highs, and I felt that it adversely affected the soundstage vs an EQ that did broadly the same. It's hard to compare, but that was what I thought I was experiencing. I'd be tempted to just use EQ rather than physical mods.

EDIT: I don't think it's a good idea to put stuff inside the earcup, I'm thinking it changes some acoustic properties of that created space beyond just measured frequency response, which ends up in soundstage differences. Obscure I know, but soundstage is not really explained in terms of measurements!

 

[RalphB]

STOP IT PEOPLE.

 

[smokey5454]

Man, I coupled the HD 800S with the Topping D70 Pro Sabre and A70 Pro, and just WOW! The Imaging and soundstage with the details is just mezmerizing! Only need to EQ the bass and treble peak and its PERFECT!!!!!

Edit: I forgot to mention that I come from Topping D50III and A50III. Definately a detail retrieval improvement hearable. Cant say if it came from the DAC or/and AMP.
Before that I drove it with the Asus Essence One Muses Edition MKII.

 

[RalphB]

Here's something I think makes the HD800s unique. We hear terms like spaciousness and imaging but we can't measure these because these are ambiguous terms that can mean anything to infinite degrees. Transducer design is by FAR the most important criteria. Factors such as Field strength(H), Flux density(B), permeability(u) of the magnet, Inductance(L) of the coil, not to mention the geometries of both. Seems like speaker diaphragm material has been exhausted, but the electric and magnetic fields play the most important role. That's what makes the sound!

 

[Westsounds]

Here's something I think makes the HD800s unique. We hear terms like spaciousness and imaging but we can't measure these because these are ambiguous terms that can mean anything to infinite degrees. Transducer design is by FAR the most important criteria. Factors such as Field strength(H), Flux density(B), permeability(u) of the magnet, Inductance(L) of the coil, not to mention the geometries of both. Seems like speaker diaphragm material has been exhausted, but the electric and magnetic fields play the most important role. That's what makes the sound!

Really good point actually that Ralph. These are un measurable quantities and basically what we are hearing is an effect. This is true for lots of transducers actually and the effect the cabinet, design and room they are used in will all have an effect. Room isn’t as much of a factor with headphones of course but perhaps it is the size and how these headphones are designed that makes them so different than other types at what they do really well. The drivers are good of course but it’s the sum of the parts which make them standout from other designs so much as well.

 

[RalphB]

There are instruments that measure all those parameters. Sennheiser guards them because they are important. I agree that there are lots of factors that go into speaker design...but it all comes down to a matter of degree. I've read about half the replies and was more confused afterwards. Are they listening to well mastered FLAC files, do they use proper amps and DACs? There seems to be no standards. Instead some people think stuffing toilet paper is an improvement. Are we arguing about a flea fart in a tornado or should we look at critical design criteria. There, I feel better now.

 

[Westsounds]

There are instruments that measure all those parameters. Sennheiser guards them because they are important. I agree that there are lots of factors that go into speaker design...but it all comes down to a matter of degree. I've read about half the replies and was more confused afterwards. Are they listening to well mastered FLAC files, do they use proper amps and DACs? There seems to be no standards. Instead some people think stuffing toilet paper is an improvement. Are we arguing about a flea fart in a tornado or should we look at critical design criteria. There, I feel better now.

Toilet paper really is a bit of a pointless exercise if you ask me, same as changing speaker cable to adjust the sound. Both can be done to a much greater effect with EQ'ing to preference, and that can be done digitally as well so why fuss over physical manipulation.

 

[Chagall]

Here's something I think makes the HD800s unique. We hear terms like spaciousness and imaging but we can't measure these because these are ambiguous terms that can mean anything to infinite degrees. Transducer design is by FAR the most important criteria. Factors such as Field strength(H), Flux density(B), permeability(u) of the magnet, Inductance(L) of the coil, not to mention the geometries of both. Seems like speaker diaphragm material has been exhausted, but the electric and magnetic fields play the most important role. That's what makes the sound!

By far the most important, compared to what, exactly? Driver angle? Earcup geometry and volume? Tuning? Damping? Pads? All of these elements work together to shape what we actually hear.

 

[RalphB]

I can't argue with that. I'm not comparing it to any thing. It's just criteria that is never mentioned but is at least as important as any of the things in your list. I owe my headphone and amp buying decisions based on Amir's evaluation. He's doing the lord's work, but maybe we're approaching this wrong. Instead of only analyzing FR and SNRs, which are very important. We should concentrate also on the transducers. If I had based my buying decision solely on the test results, I would not have purchased these HPs. I totally agree with Amirs assessment that there is something about the way they sound that makes them special. They are the best I've ever heard. Then again I'm now biased and there is also a degree of subjectivity to this hobby.
I'd like to know if anyone has reverse engineered the HP800s or compared to other HPs.

 

[Chagall]

I can't argue with that. I'm not comparing it to any thing. It's just criteria that is never mentioned but is at least as important as any of the things in your list. I owe my headphone and amp buying decisions based on Amir's evaluation. He's doing the lord's work, but maybe we're approaching this wrong. Instead of only analyzing FR and SNRs, which are very important. We should concentrate also on the transducers.

Amir provides a consistent and informative test suite: frequency response relative to the Harman target, distortion, sensitivity, and listening impressions with and without EQ. That’s a solid foundation for shortlisting headphones.

That said, headphone measurements aren’t exact - unit variation exists, and no one’s head or ears match the measurement rigs. What matters is the frequency response you get on your head, whether it seals properly, feels comfortable and sounds right to you (your preference). EQ gives you flexibility to tailor the sound if the distortion is low enough. Evaluating transducers/drivers won't change that.

If I had based my buying decision solely on the test results, I would not have purchased these HPs.

Yeah, that's why we need to try headphones before committing. A good example is HD800S vs. DCA Stealth. The HD800S has a less ideal frequency response, but it’s consistent across heads and takes EQ well. The Stealth measures better on paper, but its performance is highly dependent on seal and position variation.

 

[RalphB]

Amir provides a consistent and informative test suite: frequency response relative to the Harman target, distortion, sensitivity, and listening impressions with and without EQ. That’s a solid foundation for shortlisting headphones.

That said, headphone measurements aren’t exact - unit variation exists, and no one’s head or ears match the measurement rigs. What matters is the frequency response you get on your head, whether it seals properly, feels comfortable and sounds right to you (your preference). EQ gives you flexibility to tailor the sound if the distortion is low enough. Evaluating transducers/drivers won't change that.



Yeah, that's why we need to try headphones before committing. A good example is HD800S vs. DCA Stealth. The HD800S has a less ideal frequency response, but it’s consistent across heads and takes EQ well. The Stealth measures better on paper, but its performance is highly dependent on seal and position variation.

When we evaluate HPs we play detective and try to figure out what makes them sound good. This is proving difficult since we can't rely solely on test results. it just seems more logical to go to the source of the sound wave and evaluate the parameters and better yet, duplicate those physical, electrical and magnetic properties that create the unique HP800 sounds. Where would you start if you had to design something like this?

 

[Chagall]

When we evaluate HPs we play detective and try to figure out what makes them sound good. This is proving difficult since we can't rely solely on test results. it just seems more logical to go to the source of the sound wave and evaluate the parameters and better yet, duplicate those physical, electrical and magnetic properties that create the unique HP800 sounds. Where would you start if you had to design something like this?

To recreate HD800 sound? - I have no idea.

I'm waiting for Sennheiser to release an HD800s successor - something new and different, rather than repackaging various 6xx models. But with Axel Grell leaving and Sennheiser shutting down it's R&D (according to him), I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Westsounds]

Subjective as it may be I've never heard anything that comes close to the way detail is delivered to my ears and the spotlight they put on the entire recording. Heard most of the stuff out there now and speakers don't come close. However those drivers are made or whatever they do to them to get that from them. For me they are the pinnacle of what I've heard in terms of resolution, everything else is just fun to listen to now, and no need to search or spend any further as I just don't think it gets any better in terms of high fidelity transducer sonics than this, given that your ears are good enough to hear it.

 

[RalphB]

To recreate HD800 sound? - I have no idea.

I'm waiting for Sennheiser to release an HD800s successor - something new and different, rather than repackaging various 6xx models. But with Axel Grell leaving and Sennheiser shutting down it's R&D (according to him), I'm not holding my breath.

Companies that are bought out are more interested in cutting cost and appealing to the masses.

 

[RalphB]

Subjective as it may be I've never heard anything that comes close to the way detail is delivered to my ears and the spotlight they put on the entire recording. Heard most of the stuff out there now and speakers don't come close. However those drivers are made or whatever they do to them to get that from them. For me they are the pinnacle of what I've heard in terms of resolution, everything else is just fun to listen to now, and no need to search or spend any further as I just don't think it gets any better in terms of high fidelity transducer sonics than this, given that your ears are good enough to hear it.

I know. I can't stop listening to all my Dire Straits and Steely Dan recordings with these HPs.