Schiit Magni Heretic Headphone Amp Review

[Doodski]

Also, I would like Schiit to make headphone amps with swappable opamps ... like Burson audio .... Creative X7 ... etc to enable opamp rolling...

OP amp rolling is a blind endeavor. Trying different OP amps is blindly swapping them.

 

[solderdude]

Are you being sarcastic ? Some people have OCD like me and would believe it …

Is it really safe to use Heresy ? T.M.Noble said that it is safe. Can you confirm too ?

Well... T.M.Noble just said that the discrete version also seemed to fail but not at the same rate. So... the Heresy failed significantly more often ?
He also said ESD was the culprit. A bit like the original Topping L30 story perhaps.
That one even had DC protection on the output but that failed and still blew up some headphones despite having the protection.

That does not mean all L30's blew up. Some did. They fixed that.
For the same reason the Heresy could, at some point under some circumstances blow up but there is no protection against DC on the output (the silent headphone killer).

Now.... if I had expensive ear/headphones and I would have the Heresy AND have OCD and you asked me if would connect expensive headphones to it I would think twice about that. Certainly after T.M.Noble made remarks about sensitive opamps meaning more than one blew up over time so there is at least some risk, just like there was with Topping L30. Rare, but it did happen and folks made a big deal about it.

If you want to stay in the Schiit line (and why wouldn't you ?) and you have OCD I would sell the Heresy and buy the Heretic (with its protection) if you want to remain in this price class and form factor.

Of course, you just had the reassurance it is perfectly safe to use and in the unlikely event something goes wrong, even outside of warranty ? you could PM T.M.Noble and I am sure he will help you in any way he can.

If it were mine and could choose between Heresy and Heretic I would choose the Heretic and I don't even have OCD.

 

[T.M.Noble]

Well... T.M.Noble just said that the discrete version also seemed to fail but not at the same rate. So... the Heresy failed significantly more often ?
He also said ESD was the culprit. A bit like the original Topping L30 story perhaps.
That one even had DC protection on the output but that failed and still blew up some headphones despite having the protection.

That does not mean all L30's blew up. Some did. They fixed that.
For the same reason the Heresy could, at some point under some circumstances blow up but there is no protection against DC on the output (the silent headphone killer).

Now.... if I had expensive ear/headphones and I would have the Heresy AND have OCD and you asked me if would connect expensive headphones to it I would think twice about that. Certainly after T.M.Noble made remarks about sensitive opamps meaning more than one blew up over time so there is at least some risk, just like there was with Topping L30. Rare, but it did happen and folks made a big deal about it.

If you want to stay in the Schiit line (and why wouldn't you ?) and you have OCD I would sell the Heresy and buy the Heretic (with its protection) if you want to remain in this price class and form factor.

Of course, you just had the reassurance it is perfectly safe to use and in the unlikely event something goes wrong, even outside of warranty ? you could PM T.M.Noble and I am sure he will help you in any way he can.

If it were mine and could choose between Heresy and Heretic I would choose the Heretic and I don't even have OCD.

You are putting quite a few words in my mouth. Perhaps a slightly more charitable understanding of what I said is reasonable.

I never said ESD was the culprit, I said op amps are sensitive to ESD. Second, the failure rate for both of these headphones amps are negligible, considering we manage ALL our repairs with two full time technicians after hundreds of thousands of units in the field. Thirdly, I was referring to the op amps sensitivity to ESD is not nearly the same a discrete circuit. The difference between the two was quantifiable, but not troublesome. Fourth, as I stated before, NOTHING, is perfectly safe. If you intend to hold me to the standard of perfection than every unit from every company fails.

All that being said, we back all our products and warranties and do right by our customers. We also upgrade our units when we can so, yes, Heretic is better and Heresy.

 

[solderdude]

A lot of opamps have ESD protection diodes at the input and output so it depends on what opamps one uses and what ESD it is exposed to.

But yes, opamps can be sensitive to ESD. No idea why you would mention that other than that such could be an issue during usage (L30 story) or that the PCB manufacturer does not handle parts ESD safe leading to latent damage in those semiconductors.
I don't see that as a reason to prefer discrete. I have designed, build (tested) and serviced thousands of devices that are used in railway situations (very, very high EMC) and have not had more than perhaps a handful opamps fail over tens of years.

Negligible is not the same as safe. It just means that only a small number of amps fails. And if it fails could be catastrophic (DC on the headphone).

Discrete components (FETs, MOSFETs) are also ESD sensitive. Transistors less so.

I do not say no units can fail. Any device can always fail. There are different failure modes of course. One where the device fails and catches fire, one that destroys connected gear, or one that goes defective and does not cause any harm.
The Heretic, arguably, is the 'safer' device in failure mode.

But... IF you had OCD and regardless of the number of failures and you wanted the safest product and had to choose between the Heresy (without DC protection on the output) and the Heretic (with DC protection) in all honesty... which one would you recommend to such a person from a safety standpoint ?

Not questioning the integrity of Schiit and really like the brand (own no Schiit though) and believe customers are treated well.

 

[T.M.Noble]

A lot of opamps have ESD protection diodes at the input and output so it depends on what opamps one uses and what ESD it is exposed to.

But yes, opamps can be sensitive to ESD. No idea why you would mention that other than that such could be an issue during usage (L30 story) or that the PCB manufacturer does not handle parts ESD safe leading to latent damage in those semiconductors.
I don't see that as a reason to prefer discrete. I have designed, build (tested) and serviced thousands of devices that are used in railway situations (very, very high EMC) and have not had more than perhaps a handful opamps fail over tens of years.

Negligible is not the same as safe. It just means that only a small number of amps fails. And if it fails could be catastrophic (DC on the headphone).

Discrete components (FETs, MOSFETs) are also ESD sensitive. Transistors less so.

I do not say no units can fail. Any device can always fail. There are different failure modes of course. One where the device fails and catches fire, one that destroys connected gear, or one that goes defective and does not cause any harm.
The Heretic, arguably, is the 'safer' device in failure mode.

But... IF you had OCD and regardless of the number of failures and you wanted the safest product and had to choose between the Heresy (without DC protection on the output) and the Heretic (with DC protection) in all honesty... which one would you recommend to such a person from a safety standpoint ?

Not questioning the integrity of Schiit and really like the brand (own no Schiit though) and believe customers are treated well.

You mentioned the discrete Magni's failed as well, drawing the comparison between the op amps and a discrete amp. I gave a distinction that has a unique drawback, that op amps are sensitive to ESD.

We have built tested and serviced hundreds of thousands of different units in varying environments. We have quite a bit of data on this. It has been one of many reasons we (generally) prefer discrete designs.

You claimed I said the device is "perfectly safe". I had a problem with your characterization of our units as perfect and I addressed it.

Heretic is the safer device, that is why I claimed it has more robust safety features.

Glad we are on the same page about what we are trying to do at Schiit. We never want anyone to purchase something from us and feel disappointed with that purchase.

 

[Blake]

For whatever it's worth, DC protection was my reason for upgrading my Heresy (currently gathering dust) to Heretic. It's just a peace of mind thing to decrease the odds of a problem. Maybe I have a touch of that OCD myself. That said, I now have the Heretic, Heresy, Magni 3+, and two variants of the Fulla, and none of them have ever given me an issue. One of the outputs died on one of my Modi 3 DACs once, but that was dealt with under warranty, no problem. All anecdotal, of course, but I've seen no reason to look elsewhere for my amp/DAC needs.

 

[jkasch]

Just received one of these and loving it. It may be all in my head, but using it as preamp into my Parasound Hint is an improvement when listening to loudspeakers, also.
The current price is $79 + shipping. Quite a bargain.

 

[formdissolve]

These are now discounted to $59 at Schiit.

 

[Jimster480]

These are now discounted to $59 at Schiit.

Hopefully this means there are financial problems at Schiit.

 

[Laserjock]

Hopefully this means there are financial problems at Schiit.

Hopefully you mean “are NOT”

 

[Jimster480]

Hopefully you mean “are NOT”

No, I was very clear with what I meant.

 

[staticV3]

Hopefully you mean “are NOT”

Before you ask why, see here:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...schiit-modius-e-dac-review.44952/post-1612322
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...schiit-modius-e-dac-review.44952/post-1612355

 

[jkasch]

I’ve purchased an AKM Modius, Mani 2, and a Magni Heretic based on reviews here. Each has worked flawlessly. Maybe just lucky.

 

[Rhamnetin]

Hopefully this means there are financial problems at Schiit.

I think this is just because there's a newer Magni now.

I wasn't aware of the negative side to Schiit's reputation until now. I never saw much negativity on SBAF, nor on Head-Fi but Head-Fi is a partner so I think nothing of that. But Reddit is sure full of horror stories. I did ask Schiit's customer support a question once about something not clarified in one of their manuals, and never got an answer but that's the extent of my experience.

 

[formdissolve]

I think this is just because there's a newer Magni now.

I wasn't aware of the negative side to Schiit's reputation until now. I never saw much negativity on SBAF, nor on Head-Fi but Head-Fi is a partner so I think nothing of that. But Reddit is sure full of horror stories. I did ask Schiit's customer support a question once about something not clarified in one of their manuals, and never got an answer but that's the extent of my experience.

It seems like ever since they got an APx555 and started focusing on measurements they've gotten a lot better. I've owned multiple products from them since the Modi 3 and none have failed on me, but that doesn't mean that there won't be failures at the rate they pump out these units in mass quantities. It's a risk you take with any mass-produced and cheap audio gear from any brand. The old Modi 2 Uber I had was fairly poor and the USB implementation was demonstrably bad (Amir tested it here and showed how bad it was).

Looking at the "B-stock" section on their site shows a lot of returns, but they're clear that the unit was returned from the 15-day demo period or has blemishes. I thought they used to have a "C-stock" section that was repaired units but could be wrong. I'd say the company has come a long way with the quality of their products.. that said, I probably wouldn't buy a $2800 DAC from them... but I wouldn't buy a $2800 DAC anyways!

 

[Rhamnetin]

I feel like ever since they got an APx555 and started focusing on measurements they've gotten a lot better. I've owned multiple products from them since the Modi 3 and none have failed on me, but that doesn't mean that there won't be failures at the rate they pump out these units in mass quantities. It's a risk you take with any mass-produced and cheap audio gear from any brand. The old Modi 2 Uber I had was fairly poor and the USB implementation was demonstrably bad (Amir tested it here and showed how bad it was).

Looking at the "B-stock" section on their site shows a lot of returns, but they're clear that the unit was returned from the 15-day demo period or has blemishes. I thought they used to have a "C-stock" section that was repaired units but could be wrong. I'd say the company has come a long way with the quality of their products.. that said, I probably wouldn't buy a $2800 DAC from them... but I wouldn't buy a $2800 DAC anyways!

Yeah I only became interested in their products again once they got the analyzer, seemingly started focusing more on objective performance, leading to the Magni/Modi lineup improving drastically in performance and also leading to the Midgard and Modius E. I got the Modius E recently as I didn't know where else to turn for an affordable, North American or European made end game affordable balanced DAC.

 

[Bob from Florida]

Hopefully this means there are financial problems at Schiit.

Looks like the model is being refreshed with a new version - modular - that sells for $119 as an amp and $189 with an ESS 9018 DAC module.

Schiit Audio: Audio Products Designed and Built in Texas and California

www.schiit.com

Did Schiit mistreat you in some way that you wish misfortune on them?

 

[Veri]

No, I was very clear with what I meant.

Well that's not very nice.

 

[Jimster480]

Yeah I only became interested in their products again once they got the analyzer, seemingly started focusing more on objective performance, leading to the Magni/Modi lineup improving drastically in performance and also leading to the Midgard and Modius E. I got the Modius E recently as I didn't know where else to turn for an affordable, North American or European made end game affordable balanced DAC.

Geshelli Labs makes one now. Maybe it will be tested here. It really should be.

Well that's not very nice.

You can read some of what I've written about them over the years. My experience with them is the antithesis of nice.

Looks like the model is being refreshed with a new version - modular - that sells for $119 as an amp and $189 with an ESS 9018 DAC module.

Schiit Audio: Audio Products Designed and Built in Texas and California

www.schiit.com

Did Schiit mistreat you in some way that you wish misfortune on them?

Beyond mistreated. Not only did they have me removed from headfi but they had me banned on reddit audio subs (which I didn't even post on) and then actually invaded my audio friends group.
They went as low as to try to de-rail audio meets that we had setup in south and central Florida. Trying to actually convince people to go to bars instead of an audio meet where they would pay for drinks. Pretty wild actually, like beyond what anyone would imagine a company would do because of legitimate scrutiny of a few products they made (which I purchased).

If you search around the forum you can find the entire story. I certainly don't want to type it all again.

 

[Veri]

Yeah guess I was a bit out of the loop.