Schiit Gjallarhorn objective review

[Asyrin]

Thanks for the explanation. You are not the first one that has quoted the Eagles as music to be used for audio subjective testing. Both cheapaudioman and stereo review X (a vintage audio reviewer from the UK) use Hotel California. The A07 should be giving you about 100WPC@ 8 ohms which is about 3 time that of the Gjallarhorn. What you are reporting with this Schiit amp is quite similar to what I've heard audiophiles report about other Schiit amps, like the Audiophiliac and the reviewer at Stereophile with the Aegir. When I bought my first Aegir I plugged it onto an old HK receiver that had SE preouts. I was expecting a drop in performance going from 35 WPC to 20 WPC (Aegir) and was shocked, shocked! at how much better the Aegir amp was performing.
So you are saying the Asgard was at 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock (I would expect the latter).

I see how what I said could be unclear.
I meant the Asgard was a full 3 spots on the clock to the left of the A07. I listen to the Gjallarhorn with the Asgard at between 8 o'clock and 9 o'clock which is normal to loud listening. 10 o'clock is painful. My A07 was 11 o'clock to 12 o'clock....three "clocks" farther.
What a silly way to describe volume position but I imagine it's the best we've got.

I'm currently remodeling the downstairs which includes my new office. As such, the expense of this system comes from the remodel budget of which this is a tiny drop in the bucket. I honestly can't believe I'm getting sound this good this cheap ($780 for the stack). While I'm sure someone will have a long list of Class D amps that measure better or that they believe sound better that I could have gotten cheaper, I'm extremely satisfied.

Hell, between you and me I even emailed Schiit and asked if I should swap my Asgard for a Jotenheim so I could mono Gjallarhorns later or swap the Gjallarhorn for a Vidar and they told me it'd be a waste of money, keep my current setup. I'd see no benefit in an office environment now or likely in the future with different speakers.

Whether their motives are honest (I tend to believe so in this instance) or someone wants to claim they didn't want the return even for a more expensive product, I believe they're correct.

 

[Trudius]

I see how what I said could be unclear.
I meant the Asgard was a full 3 spots on the clock to the left of the A07. I listen to the Gjallarhorn with the Asgard at between 8 o'clock and 9 o'clock which is normal to loud listening. 10 o'clock is painful. My A07 was 11 o'clock to 12 o'clock....three "clocks" farther.
What a silly way to describe volume position but I imagine it's the best we've got.

I'm currently remodeling the downstairs which includes my new office. As such, the expense of this system comes from the remodel budget of which this is a tiny drop in the bucket. I honestly can't believe I'm getting sound this good this cheap ($780 for the stack). While I'm sure someone will have a long list of Class D amps that measure better or that they believe sound better that I could have gotten cheaper, I'm extremely satisfied.

Hell, between you and me I even emailed Schiit and asked if I should swap my Asgard for a Jotenheim so I could mono Gjallarhorns later or swap the Gjallarhorn for a Vidar and they told me it'd be a waste of money, keep my current setup. I'd see no benefit in an office environment now or likely in the future with different speakers.

Whether their motives are honest (I tend to believe so in this instance) or someone wants to claim they didn't want the return even for a more expensive product, I believe they're correct.

Thanks, the next chapter after my first Aegir was replacing the old receiver for a Freya+ (you tube recomendations plus I was curious about the tube stage). They actually do not recommend adding a second Aegir, but I pull the trigger and now have two as monoblocks. The improvement the second time was about 20-30% albeit with more headroom on the volume. They tend to be pretty upfront about recommendations, at some point someone was asking Jason Stoddard about adding display on their dacs and he immediately suggested to go with Emotiva.
I might start a stack with the Gjallarhorn and a Modius that I have on my main system now.

 

[2DFlier]

For a given use case, preferences, etc I’d suggest having a listen before passing judgement. I one fed with a Schiit Lyr in low gain through 90 dB Spatial M4 Sapphires in a treated 11’x14’ space and couldn’t be happier. But I prefer to listen at low SPL, upper 70s low 80s peak.

 

[mlsstl]

I know I'm way late to this dicussion, but I am also fond of Schiit equipment and recently picked up a Gjallarhorn to try out in the small sunroom off our bedroom. Speakers are Spendor 4/5 bookshelfs, 84 dB sensitive. I'm using the G with an Asgard 3 headphone/preamp. Sound is very good, so much so that I've put my 35 watt/ch LSA VT-70 tube amp up for sale. I've also had a number of class D amps in the past -- two different Bel Cantos, VTV/Hypex, SMSL along with a number of others, so it's not a lack of trying out options. Now, I'm not a loud listener -- 85 dB average is tops for me -- but the Gjallarhorn shows no sign of strain when I'm listening at my preferred volume.

 

[melvinjames]

I’m somewhat of a Schiit fan myself and recently purchased a Gjallarhorn and a Saga S knowing the low wattage of the Gjallarhorn wouldn’t be an issue for my Omega Super 3i Monitors. Suffice it to say I’m really happy with the sound quality of these little Schiits. Also in play is an Omega DeepHemp 8 Subwoofer, a Bluesound Node (N130), and an SMSL SU-6. Not even close to an ASR-approved system, but it suits my taste and preferences quite well nonetheless. Glad I took a chance on these.

 

[jackdanyal]

I'm listening at typically 80 dB. Would give only 10dB headroom for music dynamics. Marginal at best even in a desktop setting.

But the main point for me - for only around £100 more, I can have an Ncore based amp with 125W, and much better measurements. Or for less money, I can have any number of SMSL, Topping, or Aiyma (etc) amps with much more power, and similar measurements.

I don't have to settle for 10W

could you please list a couple of amps on nCore for the $400-$600 range?

 

[jackdanyal]

I see how what I said could be unclear.
I meant the Asgard was a full 3 spots on the clock to the left of the A07. I listen to the Gjallarhorn with the Asgard at between 8 o'clock and 9 o'clock which is normal to loud listening. 10 o'clock is painful. My A07 was 11 o'clock to 12 o'clock....three "clocks" farther.
What a silly way to describe volume position but I imagine it's the best we've got.

I'm currently remodeling the downstairs which includes my new office. As such, the expense of this system comes from the remodel budget of which this is a tiny drop in the bucket. I honestly can't believe I'm getting sound this good this cheap ($780 for the stack). While I'm sure someone will have a long list of Class D amps that measure better or that they believe sound better that I could have gotten cheaper, I'm extremely satisfied.

Hell, between you and me I even emailed Schiit and asked if I should swap my Asgard for a Jotenheim so I could mono Gjallarhorns later or swap the Gjallarhorn for a Vidar and they told me it'd be a waste of money, keep my current setup. I'd see no benefit in an office environment now or likely in the future with different speakers.

Whether their motives are honest (I tend to believe so in this instance) or someone wants to claim they didn't want the return even for a more expensive product, I believe they're correct.

tbh Cambridge Audio is a more versatile and valuable purchase. The only downside is the size of the device

 

[Matias]

could you please list a couple of amps on nCore for the $400-$600 range?

Here are some.

Nord Value-Line MP NC122 Stereo Power Amplifier

Our new Value-Line range of lower priced amplifiers. Built to compete with the budget box shifters offering a no frill amplifier with the same sonic performance of our standard range using the same modules. Incorporating lower priced cases and white LED front switch with lasered front panel...

nordacoustics.co.uk

Nord Value-Line MP NC252 Stereo Power Amplifier

SPECIFICATION (Per Channel) • Standard Stereo Case (optional SE case) • Hypex NCore NC252MP twin channel Module • RCA or XLR Input • Auto sensing 100-240V mains input operation • 0.12W standby operation • 650W Main PSU • 47K Ohms Input Impedance, low output impedance • THD 0.0015% •...

nordacoustics.co.uk

AUDIOPHONICS MPA-S125NC XLR Power Amplifier Class D Stereo NCore NC122MP 2x125W 4 Ohm - Audiophonics

The Audiophonics PAS-125NC incorporates a Hypex Ncore NC122MP power amplifier module. This is a solid base to build a powerful stereo HiFi system, capable of delivering 2x75W under 8Ω.

www.audiophonics.fr

Buckeye Amps

Buckeye Amps utilizes the most advanced audio amplifier technologies available. Authorized seller for Hypex and Purifi Class D amplifiers. Based in the US. Free shipping and worldwide service!

www.buckeyeamp.com

VTV AMPLIFIER Stereo Hypex NC122MP NCore Amplifier 125WX2 | VTV Amplifier

VTV Stereo Amplifier based on Hypex NCore NC252MP | VTV Amplifier

 

[Skeeter]

I’d give this amplifier 2/5 on a good day. A miserable set of measurements. Put aside the circa 10 W spec, the mains noise levels are abominable. If you’re designing a low power amp like this, getting mains noise peaks below -120 dBr is not insurmountable and it could be argued, mandatory if it’s likely it will be used with high efficiency speakers. The channel imbalance leaves much to be desired as well.

There are far, far too many flea power amplifiers being lauded as ‘good’ or excellent because they have ultra low distortion. A good hi-fi amp will be able to drive any load down to 2 ohms and recover gracefully from gross overdrive (aka clipping). None of the amps tested appear to have been exposed to heavily reactive loads, so we don’t know how they will perform in the real world. Further, measurements have been standardised at 5 W out for ranking purposes. Why? So a 10 W amp producing 10 ppm distortion at 5 W would rank better than a 200 W amp producing 30 ppm at near full power. Distortion is not a good metric on its own for ranking amplifier performance. Anyone claiming to hear better than 0.1% is deluded.

If you are looking to by an amp to drive a typical speaker with 83-85 dB sensitivity go for:-

100W per channel output. Output power should nearly double into 4 Ohms and the amp must be able to drive 2 Ohm loads without any problems for 1-2 minutes (reason: many speaker impedances dip to close to 2ohms in the 150-500 Hz region where there’s a lot of music energy)
It must recover gracefully from overdrive - so no rail sticking, latch up or oscillation
Slew rate of at least 1V/us per peak output volt. For a hundred watt amp, this means 40V/us
Peak mains noise levels of better than -120 dBr
THD+N of -90 dB of better
Any amp that meets all of the above with 0.005% distortion or better is an excellent amp.

The interesting thing is, 0.0005% distortion (ie 5 ppm) is the easy bit - the other things not so.

 

[Matias]

I’d give this amplifier 2/5 on a good day. A miserable set of measurements. Put aside the circa 10 W spec, the mains noise levels are abominable. If you’re designing a low power amp like this, getting mains noise peaks below -120 dBr is not insurmountable and it could be argued, mandatory if it’s likely it will be used with high efficiency speakers. The channel imbalance leaves much to be desired as well.

There are far, far too many flea power amplifiers being lauded as ‘good’ or excellent because they have ultra low distortion. A good hi-fi amp will be able to drive any load down to 2 ohms and recover gracefully from gross overdrive (aka clipping). None of the amps tested appear to have been exposed to heavily reactive loads, so we don’t know how they will perform in the real world. Further, measurements have been standardised at 5 W out for ranking purposes. Why? So a 10 W amp producing 10 ppm distortion at 5 W would rank better than a 200 W amp producing 30 ppm at near full power. Distortion is not a good metric on its own for ranking amplifier performance. Anyone claiming to hear better than 0.1% is deluded.

If you are looking to by an amp to drive a typical speaker with 83-85 dB sensitivity go for:-

100W per channel output. Output power should nearly double into 4 Ohms and the amp must be able to drive 2 Ohm loads without any problems for 1-2 minutes (reason: many speaker impedances dip to close to 2ohms in the 150-500 Hz region where there’s a lot of music energy)
It must recover gracefully from overdrive - so no rail sticking, latch up or oscillation
Slew rate of at least 1V/us per peak output volt. For a hundred watt amp, this means 40V/us
Peak mains noise levels of better than -120 dBr
THD+N of -90 dB of better
Any amp that meets all of the above with 0.005% distortion or better is an excellent amp.

The interesting thing is, 0.0005% distortion (ie 5 ppm) is the easy bit - the other things not so.

Feel free to browse the list below. Be sure to check the best value per power level on the right side too.

Amplifier SINAD list ASR + 3rd parties

List Name,THD+N (5W, 4 ohms),SINAD (dB) (5W, 4 ohms),Power (W) (1% THD+N, 4 ohms),Price (USD),Source Topping LA90 (stereo, bypass, low gain),0.00009%,121,90,800,<a href="https://www.l7audiolab.com/f/topping-la90/">L7 Audio Lab</a>,Suggestions, corrections and more info here: Topping LA90 Discre...

docs.google.com

 

[jackdanyal]

Here are some.

Nord Value-Line MP NC122 Stereo Power Amplifier

Our new Value-Line range of lower priced amplifiers. Built to compete with the budget box shifters offering a no frill amplifier with the same sonic performance of our standard range using the same modules. Incorporating lower priced cases and white LED front switch with lasered front panel...

nordacoustics.co.uk

Nord Value-Line MP NC252 Stereo Power Amplifier

SPECIFICATION (Per Channel) • Standard Stereo Case (optional SE case) • Hypex NCore NC252MP twin channel Module • RCA or XLR Input • Auto sensing 100-240V mains input operation • 0.12W standby operation • 650W Main PSU • 47K Ohms Input Impedance, low output impedance • THD 0.0015% •...

nordacoustics.co.uk

AUDIOPHONICS MPA-S125NC XLR Power Amplifier Class D Stereo NCore NC122MP 2x125W 4 Ohm - Audiophonics

The Audiophonics PAS-125NC incorporates a Hypex Ncore NC122MP power amplifier module. This is a solid base to build a powerful stereo HiFi system, capable of delivering 2x75W under 8Ω.

www.audiophonics.fr

Buckeye Amps

Buckeye Amps utilizes the most advanced audio amplifier technologies available. Authorized seller for Hypex and Purifi Class D amplifiers. Based in the US. Free shipping and worldwide service!

www.buckeyeamp.com

VTV AMPLIFIER Stereo Hypex NC122MP NCore Amplifier 125WX2 | VTV Amplifier

VTV Stereo Amplifier based on Hypex NCore NC252MP | VTV Amplifier

appreciate it

 

[Skeeter]

Feel free to browse the list below. Be sure to check the best value per power level on the right side too.

Amplifier SINAD list ASR + 3rd parties

List Name,THD+N (5W, 4 ohms),SINAD (dB) (5W, 4 ohms),Power (W) (1% THD+N, 4 ohms),Price (USD),Source Topping LA90 (stereo, bypass, low gain),0.00009%,121,90,800,<a href="https://www.l7audiolab.com/f/topping-la90/">L7 Audio Lab</a>,Suggestions, corrections and more info here: Topping LA90 Discre...

docs.google.com

 

[Skeeter]

What does SINAD at 5W into 8 Ohms tell you about how well engineered an amplifier is, or how it will behave with a real world load connected to it? Or any of the other (not exhaustive) things mentioned?

 

[Matias]

SINAD at 5W into 4 ohms you mean.

Yes, it is only 1 point in a curve. The other the max power.

But still it is a very good predictor of the overall design. That means, amplifiers with high SINAD at that specific point mean low noise floor and low distortion up to a very representative power into a very representative load.

The other one, max power, is also a good predictor of how it handles complex loads. You can bet an amp that does 700W into 4 ohms is better than another doing 100W into 4 ohms even when using a touch load such as 2 ohms, which is also not very representative of the vast majority of speakers anyway.

Now if you think that low noise floor, low distortion and tons of headroom for peaks and capacity for tough loads covered by those 2 measurements is not enough o characterize an amp, well, bring forth counter examples. I am more than willing to be proven wrong, we all learn something every day, right? But I don't think I am. And I have patiently searched, read and listed all 600+ entries of that spreadsheet above.

 

[Skeeter]

Nonsense.

 

[Matias]

Nonsense.

I will wait. Bring forth an amp with excellent SINAD at 5W into 4 ohms and lots of power, and show us where it fails as a design. I am sure there must be counter examples for us to discuss. Until then, I wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

 

[antcollinet]

Nonsense.

A classic well argued, well evidenced and science backed statement.

Have a great day tomorrow anyway.

 

[Skeeter]

No one said these designs ‘failed’ but some of them are seriously flawed - the Schit in question being one of them. No question the ‘gentleman’s club’ Audio Note is worse but the idea of ranking amplifier performance on distortion alone is seriously misleading when the other factors listed are also important and harder to achieve.

 

[sthomper]

i am ujsing two gjallarhorns as monoblockswith a schiit preamp/dac and the loki mini+....these are mated to dual polk psw10s and es20 bookshelves. i was using an ayima and tried a fosi, beefed up, v3 prior the the gjallarhorns. the chi-fi stuff perhaps can go louder...but i will say i got a notable better and richer sound stage and more auible information in space than the ayima and fosi. the little Chinese stuff is clean sounding but , for me lacked realistic depth in some way. i sit about 7.5 feet back from my speakers due to room issues...they get as loud as i can take and don't clip.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

i am ujsing two gjallarhorns as monoblockswith a schiit preamp/dac and the loki mini+....these are mated to dual polk psw10s and es20 bookshelves. i was using an ayima and tried a fosi, beefed up, v3 prior the the gjallarhorns. the chi-fi stuff perhaps can go louder...but i will say i got a notable better and richer sound stage and more auible information in space than the ayima and fosi. the little Chinese stuff is clean sounding but , for me lacked realistic depth in some way. i sit about 7.5 feet back from my speakers due to room issues...they get as loud as i can take and don't clip.

That’s the opposite from the thread title.

Please read up or watch the video from Armir on “Blind Testing” (with matched levels).