All amplifiers do not sound the same

[Foxxy]

Who even came up with this bullshit?? And why was there no backtalk?? Why was this allowed to stand???
Objective?? Objective would be "all amplifiers which reach sufficient thresholds in key parameters will sound the same."
Done.

This stupid Dunning-Kruger inaccurate pseudo objectivist bullshit has cost me a TON over the years. I kept changing speakers and treat my room and never be happy. Turn out I should have taken a good chunk of change and get a good studio amp first.

There is nothing more to say.
I am only angry because it cost me so many years of my life. Those are limited. I want them back

 

[Purité Audio]

Buying properly engineered equipment in the first instance is undoubtedly a good idea.
If you find a way to re-capture your youth do let me know.
Keith

 

[Alexander Gödde]

"In controlled double-blind listening tests, no one has ever (yes, ever!) heard a difference between two amplifiers with high input impedance, low output impedance, flat response, low distortion, and low noise, when operated at precisely matched levels (±0.1 dB) and not clipped."
Peter Aczel (https://www.biline.ca/audio_critic/critic1.htm)

That is the statement I like to refer to.

 

[djb]

Who even came up with this bullshit?? And why was there no backtalk?? Why was this allowed to stand???
Objective?? Objective would be "all amplifiers which reach sufficient thresholds in key parameters will sound the same."
Done.

This stupid Dunning-Kruger inaccurate pseudo objectivist bullshit has cost me a TON over the years. I kept changing speakers and treat my room and never be happy. Turn out I should have taken a good chunk of change and get a good studio amp first.

There is nothing more to say.
I am only angry because it cost me so many years of my life. Those are limited. I want them back

Wow! Too many gin and tonics last night?!

This hobby is subject to more FOMO than most, but with properly designed and functioning electronics, excessive cost mostly buys minimal improvement and/or bragging rights.

 

[Svend P]

This stupid Dunning-Kruger inaccurate pseudo objectivist bullshit has cost me a TON over the years

Who have you been listening to? I feel that 100% of Youtube and 100% of "audiophile" sites will agree with you. You would really have to search hard to find someone to tell you they sound the same regardless of price. But here we are.

 

[watchnerd]

Amps with VU meters sound better

 

[DVDdoug]

Objective would be "all amplifiers which reach sufficient thresholds in key parameters will sound the same."

True... I usually say, "All good amplifiers sound the same."

This has been demonstrated may times in scientific, level-matched, statistically valid blind ABX tests.

And in fact, most amplifiers are better than human hearing so people often say "all". With modern electronics, it's cheap and easy. It's been easy since solid state electronics were introduced and it keeps getting cheaper. Of course, more power costs more money.

Of course, there are exceptions.

I've NEVER heard distortion from anything that wasn't defective, broken, or over-driven into clipping. (Except for vinyl records, which can be "imperfect" even if nothing is "broken".)

I've heard frequency response variations from tube amplifiers (and vinyl records & cartridges) decades ago. And I've sometimes heard noise (hum, hiss, or whine in the background).

If I'm buying an amp, I'm going to look at the output-power spec and I'm not going to worry about the other specs. And maybe I'll consider the appearance. If I'm buying a receiver, preamp, AVR, etc., I'm mostly going to look at the features. But I'm not going to buy some random cheap amp from AliExpress.

 

[watchnerd]

Who even came up with this bullshit?? And why was there no backtalk?? Why was this allowed to stand???
Objective?? Objective would be "all amplifiers which reach sufficient thresholds in key parameters will sound the same."
Done.

This stupid Dunning-Kruger inaccurate pseudo objectivist bullshit has cost me a TON over the years. I kept changing speakers and treat my room and never be happy. Turn out I should have taken a good chunk of change and get a good studio amp first.

There is nothing more to say.
I am only angry because it cost me so many years of my life. Those are limited. I want them back

What amp were you using that you feel was degrading sonic performance?

 

[Foxxy]

Who have you been listening to? I feel that 100% of Youtube and 100% of "audiophile" sites will agree with you. You would really have to search hard to find someone to tell you they sound the same regardless of price. But here we are.

Objectivist circles.
Forums like this have existed for 20 years.
But the other side are people who discuss cable sound!

 

[voodooless]

Objectivist circles.

You’ve been around here for almost 5 years, and all you have is reductive nonsense? Clearly you haven’t been paying enough attention

 

[Scrivs]

It's really,really unfortunate that audio amplifiers have led to wasted years. Is there a step above 1st world problem? Oh boy

 

[BeeKay]

This stupid Dunning-Kruger inaccurate pseudo objectivist bullshit has

Could just be happening. But not the way you thought

 

[Foxxy]

True... I usually say, "All good amplifiers sound the same."

This has been demonstrated may times in scientific, level-matched, statistically valid blind ABX tests.

And in fact, most amplifiers are better than human hearing so people often say "all". With modern electronics, it's cheap and easy. It's been easy since solid state electronics were introduced and it keeps getting cheaper. Of course, more power costs more money.

Of course, there are exceptions.

I've NEVER heard distortion from anything that wasn't defective, broken, or over-driven into clipping. (Except for vinyl records, which can be "imperfect" even if nothing is "broken".)

I've heard frequency response variations from tube amplifiers (and vinyl records & cartridges) decades ago. And I've sometimes heard noise (hum, hiss, or whine in the background).

If I'm buying an amp, I'm going to look at the output-power spec and I'm not going to worry about the other specs. And maybe I'll consider the appearance. If I'm buying a receiver, preamp, AVR, etc., I'm mostly going to look at the features. But I'm not going to buy some random cheap amp from AliExpress.

And this is what I am arguing against: no, most amplifiers are not beyond our limits. At the very least most HiFi amps are signature tuned. Ask effing Marantz.

If you are listening for distortion, of course you are not hearing a lot. But just because it does not distorted does not mean it's either neutral nor fully transparent.

I have a few TPA3255 based amps which sound really nice but are still a step down from a nCore and PuriFi. Which to me sound fully alike. Or a good old Restek amp. Many examples

But go buy a Denon. A Marantz. Elac. Horrible. Far from neutral and in case of Elactransparency.

I have a small collection of speakers and amps and it took me many years to accept that yeah, as a normal audio lover, you are getting completely abused when it comes to electronics. Insane prices completely unrelated to performance.

And yeah, having a small life crisis. But music and audio are my life and to find out you have been fed misinformation which cost you a ton of lifetime hurts.

Build your owncollection and see where you end.

That said, I just want a system that reaches the levels of a humble Sony MX5 in bluetooth mode.

But I just refuse to spend 6k on speakers. That insane given the tech. It's like, if you listen to a truly good speaker from 15 years ago it still sounds great. And that sound has not come down in price a lot.
As opposed to power amps. At least here thanks to Class D and China we got amazing advances there.

So yeah, nowadys, plunk down on a nCore(or something like a modern AB Emotiva) or better and be happy.
I am just tired after all this.

 

[Bruce Morgen]

get a good studio amp first.

WTF is a "studio amp"? Can I rent one for less than a one-bedroom amp?

 

[Mart68]

Still not sure where this is going which at least makes it mildly interesting.

 

[Thomas Savage]

Self medicating is rarely a optimal solution, doing so using HiFi equipment is a especially erroneous pursuit.

I'd try Vulcan meditation techniques if I were you , I sense one might be going through a pon farr of sorts.

 

[watchnerd]

And this is what I am arguing against: no, most amplifiers are not beyond our limits. At the very least most HiFi amps are signature tuned. Ask effing Marantz.

If you are listening for distortion, of course you are not hearing a lot. But just because it does not distorted does not mean it's either neutral nor fully transparent.

Are you suggesting their frequency response curves are not flat?

Or there are big differences in transient response?

If they're not neutral, this should be measurable and observable.

 

[valerianf]

There are so many details that could go wrong in an amplifier design: power supply noise, input stage noise, cross conduction distortion at low signals, thermal instability at high power level, HF noise if class D, sibilance around 6khz, difficulty to handle the speaker load...
For sure the classic measurements tools are not able to catch all the defaults.
It is mandatory to listen to a new amp candidate and try it with the chosen speakers.

 

[watchnerd]

There are so many details that could go wrong in an amplifier design: power supply noise, input stage noise, cross conduction distortion at low signals, thermal instability at high power level, HF noise if class D, sibilance around 6khz, difficulty to handle the speaker load...
For sure the classic measurements tools are not able to catch all the defaults.
It is mandatory to listen to a new amp candidate and try it with the chosen speakers.

I can't think of anything you mentioned that can't be measured by common existing tools.

If you mean to say they're not part of typical test routines, okay, but that doesn't make them unmeasurable.

 

[Ricardus]

Elactransparency.

Ummm... WHAT?