Safety And Design of DIY originated Audio Products

[amirm]

Ha ha human safety. Yes this is why I didn't sell DAC's to folks of your intelligence. Better stay away from wall outlets when you have a knife in your hand. Don't put your finger in the toaster either.

Cut out the insulting language Mike.

Provide data or post nothing. We have heard enough of your childish commentary.

 

[amirm]

The shielding wasn't even required. I only used it because I had a spool of it already.

And as I already said, unlike the other Chinese SMPS's used in other DAC's, the supply in the Purestream is completely isolated from the rest of the gear with the lid on. That side panel facing the DAC board butts right up against the lid. It's pretty much in its own self contained sub-enclosure. Besides that this supply has the lowest EMI emissions of any supply available on the market. Leaps and bounds less than any linear supply. Yet we still completely isolate from the DAC.

Where is the measurements Mike? You have any? I looked at the Daitron data sheet and there is none there to back what you are saying. Where did you get your information?

 

[Mivera]

Where is the measurements Mike? You have any? I looked at the Daitron data sheet and there is none there to back what you are saying. Where did you get your information?

Guess you need to look harder.

https://daitronglobal.com/products/power/list/hfs30/pdf/emc_hfs30.pdf

https://daitronglobal.com/products/power/list/hfs30/pdf/electric_hfs30.pdf

Good luck finding that level of data from a $5 Chinese supply.

 

[pinkupanda]

Ha ha human safety. Yes this is why I didn't sell DAC's to folks of your intelligence. Better stay away from wall outlets when you have a knife in your hand. Don't put your finger in the toaster either.

You are at best an amateur DIY builder who doesn't have any educational background nor experience. No serious audio manufacturer comes to online forums and make fun when it comes to safety issues (not even Uptone). Its a disgrace to see a manufacturer like you.

 

[Mivera]

You are at best an amateur DIY builder who doesn't have any educational background nor experience. No serious audio manufacturer comes to online forums and make fun when it comes to safety issues (not even Uptone). Its a disgrace to see a manufacturer like you.

There is no safety issues. Did you even read the thread? All of Amir's claims to safety issues were debunked. He used a DIY build from a 3rd party as his example of our commercial build. Complete joke.

 

[amirm]

Guess you need to look harder.

https://daitronglobal.com/products/power/list/hfs30/pdf/emc_hfs30.pdf

Good. Here is the graph of conducted emissions on Hot input lead:

You see all those spikes? They are below the level needed for regulatory agencies but no way are they a ticket to put that line right next to the DAC output where we want to resolve better than 20 bits of dynamic range:

Here is your box again:

You see the circle in yellow? You have to keep the signal wires in white away from switchmode supply. They will bleed and your friend here is distance.

The mains switching noise may evel leak onto the DAC board, your DC regulator, buffer amp, etc.

You have no business creating long paths for AC cable of a switchmode power supply and snaking them everywhere.

Now, this may all be fine if you had measured it and knew this leakage does not exist. But you have not done so.

You are blindly going the wrong way on the road and whistling happy. No professional DAC designer would make such obvious mistakes, violating simplest rules of good hygiene in electronic design.

 

[Mivera]

Good. Here is the graph of conducted emissions on Hot input lead:

View attachment 8385

You see all those spikes? They are below the level needed for regulatory agencies but no way are they a ticket to put that line right next to the DAC output where we want to resolve better than 20 bits of dynamic range:

Here is your box again:

View attachment 8386


You see the circle in yellow? You have to keep the signal wires in white away from switchmode supply. They will bleed and your friend here is distance.

The mains switching noise may evel leak onto the DAC board, your DC regulator, buffer amp, etc.

You have no business creating long paths for AC cable of a switchmode power supply and snaking them everywhere.

Now, this may all be fine if you had measured it and knew this leakage does not exist. But you have not done so.

You are blindly going the wrong way on the road and whistling happy. No professional DAC designer would make such obvious mistakes, violating simplest rules of good hygiene in electronic design.

What you're saying is an absolute joke. Most DAC's have unshielded mains cables and unshielded noisy toroidal transformers right next to all of the critical components. We have gone miles ahead of them to deal with noise. And as all Purestream owners know, it certainly reflects in the sound.

 

[amirm]

What you're saying is an absolute joke. Most DAC's have unshielded mains cables and unshielded noisy toroidal transformers right next to all of the critical components.

Toroidal transformers means linear power supply. They don't have a millionth of the noise that switchmode supplies have.

In a switching supply, the mains is rectified into DC and then suddenly switched. This means you get a sqarewave that has peak of 170 volts in US!!! And double that in Europe.

A squarewave generates odd harmonics to infinity. So what starts at say, 100 Khz switching frequency in the switchmode supply, now generates strong harmonics well into Megahertz and even Gigahertz region.

In sharp contrast, the noisiness of a linear supply comes in its DC output and hence at far lower voltage and of course there is no hard switching.

So yes, you can have long wires in linear power supplies although good design calls for short wires there just the same.

And no, you don't use shielded mains wiring. That was your invention and we demonstrated that it was another fairytale.

What you do is to keep mains wires away from sensitive analog circuits and keep their lengths short. Both of which you violated.

 

[Mivera]

Toroidal transformers means linear power supply. They don't have a millionth of the noise that switchmode supplies have.

In a switching supply, the mains is rectified into DC and then suddenly switched. This means you get a sqarewave that has peak of 170 volts in US!!! And double that in Europe.

A squarewave generates odd harmonics to infinity. So what starts at say, 100 Khz switching frequency in the switchmode supply, now generates strong harmonics well into Megahertz and even Gigahertz region.

In sharp contrast, the noisiness of a linear supply comes in its DC output and hence at far lower voltage and of course there is no hard switching.

So yes, you can have long wires in linear power supplies although good design calls for short wires there just the same.

And no, you don't use shielded mains wiring. That was your invention and we demonstrated that it was another fairytale.

What you do is to keep mains wires away from sensitive analog circuits and keep their lengths short. Both of which you violated.

Yes maybe $5 Chinese SMPS's have this issue. If noise was being picked up in the analog outs, it would be measurable and audible. This isn't the case with the Purestream. Twisting the wires was enough as EMI emissions in the case are damn near non-existent. Even with the wires untwisted, you still can't hear any noise.

 

[amirm]

Yes maybe $5 Chinese SMPS's have this issue. If noise was being picked up in the analog outs, it would be measurable and audible. This isn't the case with the Purestream. Twisting the wires was enough as EMI emissions in the case are damn near non-existent. Even with the wires untwisted, you still can't hear any noise.

Hear the noise? Have you lost the plot? We got here because you claimed high-frequency and ultrasonic noise is problematic. Of course you can't hear such noise. You need to measure it which you have not done.

And there are $70 DACs that are totally silent just the same. So if that is the test, you are out of business there.

 

[Mivera]

Hear the noise? Have you lost the plot? We got here because you claimed high-frequency and ultrasonic noise is problematic. Of course you can't hear such noise. You need to measure it which you have not done.

And there are $70 DACs that are totally silent just the same. So if that is the test, you are out of business there.

We have measured up to the MHz. We even have a jumper for a 5Mhz filter for rare downstream gear that's sensitive to noise way up at that range. However noise peaks at -70 way up at 180Khz. Far beyond what your APx is capable of measuring.

 

[amirm]

We have measured up to the MHz. We even have a jumper for a 5Mhz filter for rare downstream gear that's sensitive to noise way up at that range. However noise peaks at -70 way up at 180Khz. Far beyond what your APx is capable is measuring.

You haven't measured a thing or you would be posting them to back all the word salad you are throwing at us.

As to my AP, it has high bandwidth mode with 133 Khz bandwidth and would show any ultrasonic of interest.

In addition, I have a 3 Ghz spectrum analyzer should we worry about aliens hearing those frequencies.

 

[Mivera]

You haven't measured a thing or you would be posting them to back all the word salad you are throwing at us.

As to my AP, it has high bandwidth mode with 133 Khz bandwidth and would show any ultrasonic of interest.

In addition, I have a 3 Ghz spectrum analyzer should we worry about aliens hearing those frequencies.

Damn if I could pull off a DAC of this caliber without even measuring I should get the next Queen Elizabeth prize for Engineering excellence!

Sorry 133Khz isn't enough to measure the performance of DSD DAC's.

 

[pinkupanda]

Damn if I could pull off a DAC of this caliber without even measuring I should get the next Queen Elizabeth prize for Engineering excellence!
.

You should get Queen Elizabeth prize for world's most futile DAC manufacturer

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

Mike - at this point, not only is your technical expertise completely trashed, but also your sanity. What rational person would waste so much time playing coy, playing "I know better than you", and being obviously deceitful on the subject of measurements. Mike, you don't have them. You are a liar, first class. What sane person would buy a DAC from a person such as you? The fact that 'so many" have done so, as you allege, is obviously the same kind of bullshit you have been spinning for the past several days. You have lost absolutely all credibility, man. But, worse, by persisting, you are showing the world that you are just plain nuts.

 

[Mivera]

Mike - at this point, not only is your technical expertise completely trashed, but also your sanity. What rational person would waste so much time playing coy, playing "I know better than you", and being obviously deceitful on the subject of measurements. Mike, you don't have them. You are a liar, first class. What sane person would buy a DAC from a person such as you? The fact that 'so many" have done so, as you allege, is obviously the same kind of bullshit you have been spinning for the past several days. You have lost absolutely all credibility, man. But, worse, by persisting, you are showing the world that you are just plain nuts.

Thanks for the compliments. But you see all of our Purestream's have been sold to happy clients. And our OEM clients are more than thrilled with our products. So don't let your emotions due to envy override rational judgement.

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

Thanks for the compliments. But you see all of our Purestream's have been sold to happy clients. And our OEM clients are more than thrilled with our products. So don't let your emotions due to envy override rational judgement.

Bullshit.

 

[Mivera]

Good. Here is the graph of conducted emissions on Hot input lead:

View attachment 8385

You see all those spikes? They are below the level needed for regulatory agencies but no way are they a ticket to put that line right next to the DAC output where we want to resolve better than 20 bits of dynamic range:

Here is your box again:

View attachment 8386


You see the circle in yellow? You have to keep the signal wires in white away from switchmode supply. They will bleed and your friend here is distance.

The mains switching noise may evel leak onto the DAC board, your DC regulator, buffer amp, etc.

You have no business creating long paths for AC cable of a switchmode power supply and snaking them everywhere.

Now, this may all be fine if you had measured it and knew this leakage does not exist. But you have not done so.

You are blindly going the wrong way on the road and whistling happy. No professional DAC designer would make such obvious mistakes, violating simplest rules of good hygiene in electronic design.

Another thing here is you're showing the results with 230v and 100% load! We are running our supply at around 10% load. So best look at the no load specs for a closer representation of how this supply is preforming in the Purestream.

 

[Mivera]

 

[Mivera]

Wow views are up to 1456 already!! Let's check the forum valuation:

http://www.netvaluator.com/www/audiosciencereview.com

Damn Amir! I'd get some pop up ad's going or something. You'd make a fortune!