S.M.S.L DA-9 vs AO200?

[DACslut]

Can anyone familiar with both amps or an expert on the subject please explain the primary functional and technical differences between the very similar S.M.S.L DA-9 & AO200 amplifiers? An Amazon reviewer subjectively noted the AO200 had better bass performance over the DA-9. Other than the AO200 costing $30 more, having dual SW outputs and a USB input, I failed to discern what other features or specs significantly distinguish the two from each other? Thanks.

 

[dunkink]

I do not see any difference besides the ones that you mentioned. I heard from @Toku that AO200 has better quality control as compared to DA-9. He had experiences with pop noise issues in DA-9. I do not see many people who bought AO200 since it is relatively new. For my DA-9, I did not have the pop noise issue, and the DC offset is very low <60mV.

 

[DACslut]

I do not see any difference besides the ones that you mentioned. I heard from @Toku that AO200 has better quality control as compared to DA-9. He had experiences with pop noise issues in DA-9. I do not see many people who bought AO200 since it is relatively new. For my DA-9, I did not have the pop noise issue, and the DC offset is very low <60mV.

Thanks for the reply and sharing your favorable experience with the DA-9. My AO200 arrives tomorrow from the 'zon. I spent a considerable amount of time before choosing it over the DA-9 and if that one had been offered with Prime, I probably would've chosen it instead. The AO200 became available on June 18th and the DA-9 since March 30th. Maybe S.M.S.L implemented a few minorly improved revisions for the AO200 design in that little bit of time span.

I eventually intend to report back here on my initial experiences with the AO200, most likely in a week or two. I have the Micca RB42's, Sony SS-CS5's, and a pair of 80th Anniversary Wharfdale Dentons to aid in my auditioning the AO's performance.

 

[mononoaware]

I prefer the external appearance of the AO200 over the DA-9.
Combine that with expectations of better QC and similarities in topology.

I think AO200 appearance more resembles a “mini” integrated amplifier.
Denon/Cambridge Audio entry models came to mind.

Also USB input on AO200 could be very handy (if it works like I think it does) for those who like simple setups.

 

[dunkink]

Thanks for the reply and sharing your favorable experience with the DA-9. My AO200 arrives tomorrow from the 'zon. I spent a considerable amount of time before choosing it over the DA-9 and if that one had been offered with Prime, I probably would've chosen it instead. The AO200 became available on June 18th and the DA-9 since March 30th. Maybe S.M.S.L implemented a few minorly improved revisions for the AO200 design in that little bit of time span.

I eventually intend to report back here on my initial experiences with the AO200, most likely in a week or two. I have the Micca RB42's, Sony SS-CS5's, and a pair of 80th Anniversary Wharfdale Dentons to aid in my auditioning the AO's performance.

Oh another thing is that you can turn off the lcd screen on AO200

 

[gcbrink]

Hello, because the SMSL AO200 has a USB input, it is (potentially) a much better deal compared to the SMSL DA-9 or Sabaj a20a -- depending on the quality of the DAC that it includes. However, I cannot find any specs or hints about the USB input and DAC for the SMSL AO200.

 

[DACslut]

Hello, because the SMSL AO200 has a USB input, it is (potentially) a much better deal compared to the SMSL DA-9 or Sabaj a20a -- depending on the quality of the DAC that it includes. However, I cannot find any specs or hints about the USB input and DAC for the SMSL AO200.

Ya, there ain't much info out there on the USB/DAC section. I'm quite pleased with my AO200's performance and operation up to this point. Clean, accurate and precise with a decent soundstage from the USB input. I've only had the Micca RB42's driven by it so far and it makes them ROCK!

FWIW, there's a recent 'tube review on the amp by cheapaudioman:

 

[mononoaware]

Ya, there ain't much info out there on the USB/DAC section. I'm quite pleased with my AO200's performance and operation up to this point. Clean, accurate and precise with a decent soundstage from the USB input. I've only had the Micca RB42's driven by it so far and it makes them ROCK!

FWIW, there's a recent 'tube review on the amp by cheapaudioman:

I think the videos title should be “Do balanced inputs make a difference?”.
The AO200 is not a balanced amplifier and does not claim to be.
Balanced design would mean two power transformers and a dual mono design throughout the entire topology.

 

[DACslut]

I'd like some of our "Technical Experts" to offer their thoughts please. The DA-9 shares identical topology with the AO200. Please explain this review article's (linked below) claim that "The DA-9 is a 2-channel amplifier equipped with a fully balanced circuit that greatly reduces signal distortion. Each channel is equipped with an Infineon class D amplifier circuit that ensures further reductions in distortion, as well as an efficiency of 92%, reducing power consumption." and tell me why the AO200 wouldn't have the same characteristics? Maybe you should do a little research before inaccurately commenting on someone else's thread. That seems to be a common occurrence around here lately, so don't feel like the Lone Ranger.

https://headfonics.com/smsl-da-9-review/

 

[mononoaware]

I'd like some of our "Technical Experts" to offer their thoughts please. The DA-9 shares identical topology with the AO200. Please explain this review article's (linked below) claim that "The DA-9 is a 2-channel amplifier equipped with a fully balanced circuit that greatly reduces signal distortion. Each channel is equipped with an Infineon class D amplifier circuit that ensures further reductions in distortion, as well as an efficiency of 92%, reducing power consumption." and tell me why the AO200 wouldn't have the same characteristics? Maybe you should do a little research before inaccurately commenting on someone else's thread. That seems to be a common occurrence around here lately, so don't feel like the Lone Ranger.

https://headfonics.com/smsl-da-9-review/

Just because a reviewer or manufacturer claims their product is “balanced design” does not make it so.

For example the SMSL SU-8 V2 DAC claimed to be a balanced DAC when I purchased it, but it turns out the power transformer and the output stage is shared which means it is technically not a “balanced design”.

Some may argue the definition between “balanced” and “fully balanced”.
To my understanding an amplifier has input stage, amplification, output stage.
If any part of this is shared it is technically not balanced design.
And since SU-8 had shared output stage , I suspect DA-9/AO200 is also not balanced design.

 

[Roland68]

Since both devices are equipped with a (1 piece) NJW1194 2-CHANNEL ELECTRONIC VOLUME, the fully symmetrical circuit is over after the balanced input.
It may be that it continues symmetrically afterwards, but that has nothing to do with a fully symmetrical circuit.
But it is not the only SMSL device that is structured in this way. With my SP400, the volume control via the relays is not symmetrical either, the rest is.

 

[DACslut]

Since both devices are equipped with a (1 piece) NJW1194 2-CHANNEL ELECTRONIC VOLUME, the fully symmetrical circuit is over after the balanced input.
It may be that it continues symmetrically afterwards, but that has nothing to do with a fully symmetrical circuit.
But it is not the only SMSL device that is structured in this way. With my SP400, the volume control via the relays is not symmetrical either, the rest is.

I suspect the Sabaj A20a's balanced inputs are not fully symmetrical either? I'm just about to pull the proverbial trigger on that unit. However, there seems to be major issues with the power relays constantly ticking under certain conditions:

"When playing a song with a lot of deep bass at a volume level of about 30, a ticking and mechanical sound is constantly generated from inside the A20a. It sounds like the relay is chattering, and it's a very annoying level of volume."

I pasted that from one of Toku's posts in the Sabaj A10a thread. Supposedly any order shipments are delayed until the revised units are available. I really don't know what to do?

 

[DACslut]

I went for it. No clue when it'll ship out tho.

 

[Roland68]

I suspect the Sabaj A20a's balanced inputs are not fully symmetrical either?

I am also considering buying the Sabaj A20a, but with just one NJW1194 it will not have a fully symmetrical circuit, just like the S.M.S.L DA-9 and AO200.
Unfortunately!

 

[jokan]

Hi guys/gals.

I have the DA-9 and have been happy without any issues other than QC which was an easy fix in my case.
I have the A0200 in my Amazon Jp shopping cart and will order have one in September. From the pictures that I can see on Amazon Japan's site for the amp, they've changed how the PSU is mounted and there is an additional noise shielding plate (metal bracket) which should reduce any noise from the LED screen driver which on my DA-9 did create noise but I had EMI/RFI absorbing tape which cured the extremely faint buzzing.

I'm buying the A0200 because the volume knob, the screen location matches with my RME ADI DAC2 fs. I also can't stand having any screen that I can't turn off with a timer, or by choice. The A0200 seems from all indications to be slightly better built. After I take delivery of my very own unit and confirm that it checks out as stable and functioning properly, I will open it up and take photos for everybody to see. They moved sockets around, they added a for me useless USB input, they moved other items around from the pictures that I can see from the Amazon page. The performance should be identical, or near identical as far as sound quality. It could be slightly better due to the moving around of the internals.

I don't mind having two nearly identical devices as I have more than 10 pairs of speakers that I play around with and alternate for kicks. I'm hoping that SMSL will be more forthcoming with objective measurements for this lineup of infineon/merus dual chip based amplifiers. I don't trust SMSL/Aoshida's data because it is uncorroborated. The reviews floating around on the internet seem positive, though at least two are duplicate reports, word for word but from different sites.

I won't speculate on empirical data as there is none at this time. I'll keep track of this thread as the A0200 is comparatively new. Though Amazon Jp has several users who switched from the DA-9 and have confirmed that it is a better built device and far more stable.

I also believe that SMSL might be holding back on releasing more information about the DA-9/A0200 because it might just out perform some of their new releases, namely the SA400 and newer devices that use a similar architecture and chipset.

I will post what I find out in due time.

 

[dunkink]

Hi guys/gals.

I have the DA-9 and have been happy without any issues other than QC which was an easy fix in my case.
I have the A0200 in my Amazon Jp shopping cart and will order have one in September. From the pictures that I can see on Amazon Japan's site for the amp, they've changed how the PSU is mounted and there is an additional noise shielding plate (metal bracket) which should reduce any noise from the LED screen driver which on my DA-9 did create noise but I had EMI/RFI absorbing tape which cured the extremely faint buzzing.

I'm buying the A0200 because the volume knob, the screen location matches with my RME ADI DAC2 fs. I also can't stand having any screen that I can't turn off with a timer, or by choice. The A0200 seems from all indications to be slightly better built. After I take delivery of my very own unit and confirm that it checks out as stable and functioning properly, I will open it up and take photos for everybody to see. They moved sockets around, they added a for me useless USB input, they moved other items around from the pictures that I can see from the Amazon page. The performance should be identical, or near identical as far as sound quality. It could be slightly better due to the moving around of the internals.

I don't mind having two nearly identical devices as I have more than 10 pairs of speakers that I play around with and alternate for kicks. I'm hoping that SMSL will be more forthcoming with objective measurements for this lineup of infineon/merus dual chip based amplifiers. I don't trust SMSL/Aoshida's data because it is uncorroborated. The reviews floating around on the internet seem positive, though at least two are duplicate reports, word for word but from different sites.

I won't speculate on empirical data as there is none at this time. I'll keep track of this thread as the A0200 is comparatively new. Though Amazon Jp has several users who switched from the DA-9 and have confirmed that it is a better built device and far more stable.

I also believe that SMSL might be holding back on releasing more information about the DA-9/A0200 because it might just out perform some of their new releases, namely the SA400 and newer devices that use a similar architecture and chipset.

I will post what I find out in due time.

Joken, thanks for sharing your experience with AO200. what makes you think AO200 is better build than DA9. BTW, I cannot see your pictures.

 

[jokan]

you can go to amazon.jp and search for the A0200! I'll link the page:
https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product...wc_img_dp_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3GZRMVOG1LYPO

with the DA-9 the psu is screwed in to a notched out section of the main PCB that houses or mounts everything with no shielding barrier.
It appears that there are many small changes internally from the pictures that is found on amazon. The plate that shields or blocks off the psu should minimise any whine from the LED screen driver module.

I don't have the a0200 yet, but I will next month. I will have it torn apart once I confirm that the unit operates correctly.

 

[jokan]

Here's a picture of the metal shield to block out EMI/RFI, you can also see the mounting screws for the PSU. It is completely different from the DA-9's internals. I'll try and dig up a picture of the DA-9 internals and PSU.

The picture of the PSU from the DA-9 that has a grey/silver tape applied is a picture of my own DA-9 which made noise from the power driver unit for the LED screen. That tape is made by a Japanese company called Oyaide, a world famous cable and accessory company. The tape is not a noise reflecting tape, it is instead a noise absorption tape. It's available in the EU and wider and sold under the model number MWA-010T by Oyaide Electric. It's expensive, and they sell it in larger and thicker sheets also. It's actually surprising how a short strip, just long enough to be applied above and below banana plugs, or speaker inputs can make a noticeable difference in sound as speaker wires create electromagnetic flux and this 0.1mm thick tape absorbs some of the flux-noise and makes upper frequencies sound cleaner, and bass a little bit tighter sounding. Once you try the tape, you will know that I am not telling tall tales. People in Japan have known about this type of tape, not copper tape for years now and many audio-geeks swear by it once they've tried it themselves with skepticism. I am one such audio geek. I definitely was not a believer until i bought one reel of the tape. The thicker material is applied to some areas of both of my tube amplifiers but not on all surfaces, the tape material is a little too effective and can take away some of the "liveliness" out of the music.

Just some personal experience and the experience of others who also use the same material. It is not snake oil.

 

[dunkink]

Here's a picture of the metal shield to block out EMI/RFI, you can also see the mounting screws for the PSU. It is completely different from the DA-9's internals. I'll try and dig up a picture of the DA-9 internals and PSU.

The picture of the PSU from the DA-9 that has a grey/silver tape applied is a picture of my own DA-9 which made noise from the power driver unit for the LED screen. That tape is made by a Japanese company called Oyaide, a world famous cable and accessory company. The tape is not a noise reflecting tape, it is instead a noise absorption tape. It's available in the EU and wider and sold under the model number MWA-010T by Oyaide Electric. It's expensive, and they sell it in larger and thicker sheets also. It's actually surprising how a short strip, just long enough to be applied above and below banana plugs, or speaker inputs can make a noticeable difference in sound as speaker wires create electromagnetic flux and this 0.1mm thick tape absorbs some of the flux-noise and makes upper frequencies sound cleaner, and bass a little bit tighter sounding. Once you try the tape, you will know that I am not telling tall tales. People in Japan have known about this type of tape, not copper tape for years now and many audio-geeks swear by it once they've tried it themselves with skepticism. I am one such audio geek. I definitely was not a believer until i bought one reel of the tape. The thicker material is applied to some areas of both of my tube amplifiers but not on all surfaces, the tape material is a little too effective and can take away some of the "liveliness" out of the music.

Just some personal experience and the experience of others who also use the same material. It is not snake oil.

Jokan,

Thank you for such detailed pictures. I have DA-9 and did not have any serious issues so far. I bought the amp from Amazon and past the return period. So I may need to keep it, but it is really tempted to try AO200 as well. I am still waiting for measurement reviews of both DA9 and AO200 to see how they are different. My unit has some pop noise whenever I switch inputs, but I could hear only in high volume.

 

[jokan]

It seems that there are several iterations or production runs of the DA-9. Mine was definitely one of the early production runs.
The second run had freezing or locking up problems. The latest seems to be problem free.
I have a strong suspicion that SMSL is intentionally not producing any measurements or loaning out a DA-9 to be measured because it very well may outperform some of their newer and more expensive amplifiers. There are so many user reviews that SMSL has got to be paying attention and listening to the various complaints and praise for the DA-9. I'm only going to buy the A0200 because i prefer the appearance. The Japanese Amazon reviews are extremely positive, with many owners having bought the DA-9 only to change over to the A0200. I think that speaks for itself.

Fortunately for me, I haven't had any issues other than the initial QC issues that I was able to fix myself with ease. It seems they are ironing out the issues as time goes by with the DA-9. The A0200 is basically the same amp using the same chips, and from the pictures that I have seen so far, circuit wise it is the same. The packaging is definitely different. How exactly that changes sound, or performance I have no idea. I suspect it will sound the same if the DA-9 is problem free. I really want to have a timed display shut off and have the screen location and volume knob match locations with my RME DAC. That is the only reason why I am buying one next month. I've had some family emergencies come up that has forced me to save as much money as I can so I'm a month behind in purchasing the A0200. But it's in my shopping cart in Amazon Japan!

Pictures will be posted as I'm sure many are interested in the differences between the two.

Have a good day dunkink!