Rythmik L12 Subwoofer Review

[Chromatischism]

It's a shame we don't seem to have <15hz data for the F12, unless it can't go that low or something?

It does. Remember that the CTA-2010 standard only publishes "passing" (in terms of distortion at max output) numbers. It's common to see the larger subs post numbers at lower frequencies because the large drivers naturally have lower distortion.

 

[BoredErica]

It does. Remember that the CTA-2010 standard only publishes "passing" (in terms of distortion at max output) numbers. It's common to see the larger subs post numbers at lower frequencies because the large drivers naturally have lower distortion.

Oh. I checked the Brent sheet. Doesn't seem like he even tests below 16hz at all? So maybe F12 can pass 12.5hz, it just wasn't tested. (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...V9DAHSdIZ_ke0MxwH6ekt3vTIlYOJU/htmlview#gid=0)

 

[Synergy4]

I am considering replacing my old Velodyne HGS18B THX Ultra 2 subwoofer with a pair of Rythmik subwoofers. The application is for music only in a 2800 ft^3 room. My miniDSP SHD will be used for tuning.

I wish we had more information on distortion over the bandwidth vs output level for the Rythmik L12, F12 & F12G. The L12 looks nice, but does not have XLR balanced inputs. I would need to add a XLR balanced to RCA singled ended instrumentation amplifiers to the back of each L12. I don't want long cable runs of unbalanced RCA low level signals.

The L12 subwoofer plot of distortion is not real clear on output level for measurements, although the review earlier has a CE2034 plot which indicates 100dB SPL at 30Hz. There is no similar review or plot for the F12 & F12G.

I guess, if one does not play music at too high volume levels, a pair of L12s should work fine with a pair KEF R3s. The hard part is figuring out what volume level would be considered too high, over 100dB SPL across most of the music spectrum?

 

[RichB]

I am considering replacing my old Velodyne HGS18B THX Ultra 2 subwoofer with a pair of Rythmik subwoofers. The application is for music only in a 2800 ft^3 room. My miniDSP SHD will be used for tuning.

View attachment 183594

I wish we had more information on distortion over the bandwidth vs output level for the Rythmik L12, F12 & F12G. The L12 looks nice, but does not have XLR balanced inputs. I would need to add a XLR balanced to RCA singled ended instrumentation amplifiers to the back of each L12. I don't want long cable runs of unbalanced RCA low level signals.

The L12 subwoofer plot of distortion is not real clear on output level for measurements, although the review earlier has a CE2034 plot which indicates 100dB SPL at 30Hz. There is no similar review or plot for the F12 & F12G.

I guess, if one does not play music at too high volume levels, a pair of L12s should work fine with a pair KEF R3s. The hard part is figuring out what volume level would be considered too high, over 100dB SPL across most of the music spectrum?

View attachment 183596

I replaced my Velodyne HGS15 with a pair of Rythmik E22 (dual 12" each) subwoofer. Two is better for LFE that can be up to 120Hz so can be localized. My room is 5400 cuFt and they measure down to 13Hz in room. The cabinets were custom make by Salk Sound to match the Salon2s. I am a big fan of 2 subs over 1.



- Rich

 

[Chrispy]

I am considering replacing my old Velodyne HGS18B THX Ultra 2 subwoofer with a pair of Rythmik subwoofers. The application is for music only in a 2800 ft^3 room. My miniDSP SHD will be used for tuning.

View attachment 183594

I wish we had more information on distortion over the bandwidth vs output level for the Rythmik L12, F12 & F12G. The L12 looks nice, but does not have XLR balanced inputs. I would need to add a XLR balanced to RCA singled ended instrumentation amplifiers to the back of each L12. I don't want long cable runs of unbalanced RCA low level signals.

The L12 subwoofer plot of distortion is not real clear on output level for measurements, although the review earlier has a CE2034 plot which indicates 100dB SPL at 30Hz. There is no similar review or plot for the F12 & F12G.

I guess, if one does not play music at too high volume levels, a pair of L12s should work fine with a pair KEF R3s. The hard part is figuring out what volume level would be considered too high, over 100dB SPL across most of the music spectrum?

View attachment 183596

What's the question about sub level particularly? You generally level match it to your speakers....or tweak it to preference. A good sub has more legs than those speakers, tho. While they didn't test any of the sealed models, a few vented models were measured at data-bass.com if you want to get an idea in general.....

 

[Chromatischism]

I guess, if one does not play music at too high volume levels, a pair of L12s should work fine with a pair KEF R3s. The hard part is figuring out what volume level would be considered too high, over 100dB SPL across most of the music spectrum?

Chrispy made a good point above – a pair of L12's will play louder than the R3's. I would say the top end is around 5 dB (at 20 Hz) above where the R3 will want to tap out. That means you could get some compression from the subs if your system is up really loud and hitting 95 dB peaks which demands 105 dB or more from the subs depending on your sub boost and curve. However if you play at more reasonable levels like 85 dB, a pair of L12's are up to the task as they shouldn't be asked to do more than 100 dB.

If you move up to the F-line you can get XLR inputs on some of the subs.

 

[Chrispy]

Or just get more capable subs for more headroom.....

 

[Chrispy]

Chrispy made a good point above – a pair of L12's will play louder than the R3's. I would say the top end is around 5 dB (at 20 Hz) above where the R3 will want to tap out. That means you could get some compression from the subs if your system is up really loud and hitting 95 dB peaks which demands 105 dB or more from the subs depending on your sub boost and curve. However if you play at more reasonable levels like 85 dB, a pair of L12's are up to the task.

Altho that extra 10dB would be for movies...shouldn't matter for music.

 

[Chromatischism]

Or just get more capable subs for more headroom.....

That's what I did. Rocking 2x FV15HP2's now

 

[Synergy4]

What's the question about sub level particularly? You generally level match it to your speakers....or tweak it to preference. A good sub has more legs than those speakers, tho. While they didn't test any of the sealed models, a few vented models were measured at data-bass.com if you want to get an idea in general.....

The main question is the distortion level of the L12 vs F12 vs F12G at nominal volume levels. I know all the levels need to be balanced & room acoustics need to be accounted for in the MiniDSP calibration. The useful subwoofer output is limited by distortion. The CTA-2010 specification has pretty high levels of distortion for determining maximum output SPL at a specific frequency: https://brentbutterworth.com/cta-2010-manual

The distortion level in the L12 review plot are nowhere near the levels used by CTA-2010.

The KEF R3 has adequate SPL for what I need. It seems like a pair of L12s might work fine, I just need to add the balanced XLR to single ended RCA instrumentation amplifier near the subwoofers.

I don't use the stereo system for movies.

A CTA-2010 measurement example below.

 

[Tom C]

The main question is the distortion level of the L12 vs F12 vs F12G at nominal volume levels. I know all the levels need to be balanced & room acoustics need to be accounted for in the MiniDSP calibration. The useful subwoofer output is limited by distortion. The CTA-2010 specification has pretty high levels of distortion for determining maximum output SPL at a specific frequency: https://brentbutterworth.com/cta-2010-manual

The distortion level in the L12 review plot are nowhere near the levels used by CTA-2010.

The KEF R3 has adequate SPL for what I need. It seems like a pair of L12s might work fine, I just need to add the balanced XLR to single ended RCA instrumentation amplifier near the subwoofers.

I don't use the stereo system for movies.

A CTA-2010 measurement example below.

You have seen this, right?

Subwoofer Comparison by @sweetchaos

Should tell what there is to know. If what you want isn’t in this spreadsheet, the info pretty much doesn’t exist.

 

[Synergy4]

You have seen this, right?

Subwoofer Comparison by @sweetchaos

Should tell what there is to know. If what you want isn’t in this spreadsheet, the info pretty much doesn’t exist.

Yes, I have seen that, but it does NOT provide reasonable distortion information at nominal SPL levels. The subwoofer spreadsheet is fine for
figuring out maximum low frequency output for Home Theater, not much help with looking for audiophile music quality.

I would like the see how the Harmonic distortion levels of the Rythmik F12 over frequency compared to the L12 & F12G at at nominal SPL level (90-100dB). The L12 & F12G have paper cones and the F12 has aluminum cone.

It seems the Home Theatre Subwoofer focus is a bit like drag racing top fuel nitrous burning dragsters which are serious ground shakers and pushed to the limit before they self annihilate. In drag racing, the saying goes..... "A little is good, More is better and Too much is just Right"

The other review that has similar distortion info (relevant to music) to this Rythmik L12 review is from Erin's Corner on the Rythmik F12G, but only shows the distortion of the GR SW-12-04 driver: Rythmik Audio F12G Direct Servo Subwoofer In-Depth Review

GR SW-12-04 driver....
"Overall, the Harmonic Distortion components at 2.83v/1m are really low. The red PHD line is a representation of perceived harmonic distortion. You’ll note this is very, very low. With 20v input, putting the mean SPL from 20 to 300hz at about 98dB, THD climbs to about 3% THD at 60hz. However, this is mostly comprised of 2nd order distortion while 3rd order distortion is below 1.5%. Whether or not this is an audible factor seems to be of hot debate. The key here is the relationship between 2nd and 3rd order and that they’re well separated, indicating no serious flaws in the driver."

 

[sigbergaudio]

3% at 60hz at 98dB is not audible.

 

[Chromatischism]

The useful subwoofer output is limited by distortion

I actually don't agree. In my experience with these subs, you'll notice a lack of headroom before you notice distortion.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I actually don't agree. In my experience with these subs, you'll notice a lack of headroom before you notice distortion.

I agree, using them in a fairly large room, you can get them to run out of headroom, and up until then they sound clean. I've not measured it, but they sound clean. Now this isn't to say they easily run out of headroom, but that does seem to be their primary limitation.

 

[Synergy4]

Distortion can lead to listening fatigue and measuring that on a speaker vs a human is very hard to quantify to difference.

According Rythmik, the distortion is very low for all their subwoofers, but the F12G is better than the entry level L12, since it has a different driver.

It comes down to how large, how much weight, how much SPL & how much cost is acceptable for one's needs. The ported version are going to be more bass on can feel, below 20Hz.

Rythmik
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/official-rythmik-audio-subwoofer-thread.1214550/post-18304386

" So....which of the Rythmik subs are the most musical?"

"They are all very musical. They all have the same articulate, transparent, effortless, and coherent bass sound. You can tell the difference only when you place them side-by-side and listen very carefully. I contribute their distinct sound to 1) low intrinsic Q value (only 0.33, 3x lower than nonservo), and 2) extremely low memory effect. The latter is only possible via servo.

If one does not play very loud, then F12G with SW12-4 paper cone driver is very good and has slight edge in that area. Very dynamic at low level signals. This is particularly good if it is a pure 2ch system and when the background noise can be very quiet. The shortcoming of paper cone is it is not stiff enough. In HT, when huge short spurs of bass is often, the metal cone performs better to overcome the air spring (in both sealed and vented subwoofers) to stay in control."

Rythmik
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/of...woofer-thread.1214550/page-1050#post-37928761

"L12 is part of our entry level subwoofers. LV12R is our entry level single tuned ported sub. L12 is our entry level sealed sub. LVX12 is our entry level multi-tuned ported sub.

Sound quality of L12 is excellent for its price range. The F12, our higher end model, improves on micro-dynamics, flexibility in control (one PEQ control and separate damping/extension control), slightly higher output, and a high end looking metal cone driver. F12 also comes with piano finish option. If customers can afford F12, we recommend F12 over L12. It is mainly dictated by budget. The difference of micro-dynmic is very subtle. Not everyone can immediately tell the difference. But if you plan to upgrade your front speakers in the future, invest in a more expensive subwoofer from the very beginning also makes sense."

Rythmik
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/of...woofer-thread.1214550/page-2443#post-60744003
"Bass I love you" has quite a bit to subsonic energy -- the bass that you cannot hear. It is a challenge to a lot of mid-size subs. You need to have multiple F12 to be able to actually feel the subsonic energy. Otherwise F12 amp will be into clipping. It is a catch-22 situation. To avoid the clipping in subsonic range, the rumble filter needs to be ON. If the rumble filter is ON, then that music will sound less spectacular. In my 15"x20" I need at least an F15HP to be able to feel the impact without resorting to "rumble filter". Even then, I need to pay special attention to the volume setting. Subsonic range headroom is the key. Ported subs are better than sealed sub in subsonic output."

Rythmik
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/official-rythmik-audio-subwoofer-thread.1214550/post-55024288

"E15HP2 is the best we can squeeze out from a compact 15" model. It has about 1db to 1.5db less output than F18. F18 will have a lower distortion because the cone size is larger and therefore excursion. E15HP2 is really an effort to make E15 more attractive without compromise in output compared to F15HP. In short, a smaller enclosure does impact the output below 20hz. To compensate for that, we need to have a slightly bigger amp. "

 

[Chromatischism]

Distortion can lead to listening fatigue

This is true in the mid and high frequencies. In the very low frequencies, it is a different matter.

It comes down to how large, how much weight, how much SPL & how much cost is acceptable for one's needs. The ported version are going to be more bass on can feel, below 20Hz.

This is a misconception. Ported/vented designs have a lot more power within their tuning range, which on Rythmiks will give you increased output over sealed subs up into the 30's where sealed normally starts rolling off. The vented design actually loses output faster than sealed below 20 Hz. This means the vented subs give you a heavier kickdrum fundamental and a lot more LFE in movies including all the rumbles that extend as low as 15 Hz. Under that, sealed is stronger.

 

[Synergy4]

Yes, the ported subwoofer low end rolls off faster than a sealed unit IF the low end rumble filter on the sealed unit is turned off.

The Ported subwoofer has more output.

 

[carewser]

I replaced my Velodyne HGS15 with a pair of Rythmik E22 (dual 12" each) subwoofer. Two is better for LFE that can be up to 120Hz so can be localized. My room is 5400 cuFt and they measure down to 13Hz in room. The cabinets were custom make by Salk Sound to match the Salon2s. I am a big fan of 2 subs over 1.

View attachment 183598

- Rich

I don't blame you for replacing that chintzy Velodyne sub, I mean who could live with a sub that only goes down to 18hz and puts out a measly 1250 watts RMS?

And I thought I was a basshead

 

[RichB]

I don't blame you for replacing that chintzy Velodyne sub, I mean who could live with a sub that only goes down to 18hz and puts out a measly 1250 watts RMS?

And I thought I was a basshead

When I played "A quiet place" the HGS-15, it bottomed out. I had it for over 15 years with one amp replacement.
The E22s do not bottom out with these settings:

Limiter: ON
Damping: HI
Extension Filter: 14Hz

- Rich