Russian Invasion of Ukraine

[thorvat]

Giving more arms and banning banks, export, travelling etc. are just complicating and forlonging the crisis/war!

Would you say the same if Russian tanks would be running in your country now and your city would be on the 24 hours shelling?

Remember that for the piece you need 2 parties, and Russia obviously isn't gonna be one of them otherwise they wouldn't attack a sovereign country.

 

[solderdude]

Only a written declaration of NATO that they won't let Ukraine ever join (what the talks were about and NATO would not do) or the official government being Russian marionettes like Poshenko was till 2019, may end the occupation.

Because NATO wants to expand and now there is a president who is not a Russian Puppet this has happened.

The population VERY sadly pays the price for Putins fears and delusional thinking.

 

[voodooless]

NATO/E.U. is already at Russian borders b.t.w. Finland, Estland and Lithuania.

Just to be precise here: Finland is not NATO member. Neither is nearby Sweden.

 

[solderdude]

Didn't know... that only makes Finland a target when they decide to join NATO

 

[voodooless]

A fast way out of this is a revolution in Russia, but I don't believe it will happen. Only the military could do that, not civilians.

Yeah, fast like the previous time that happened we’ll still be here in a few decades discussing that.

 

[voodooless]

Didn't know... that only makes Finland a target when they decide to join NATO

Putin explicitly threatened with nuclear force over this happening. He truly is a madman!

 

[solderdude]

People blame Russia. Russia is not the problem. Putin and his henchmen are. The army just does what they are ordered.

I only see this stopping when either Putin gets his way (Ukraine not ever joining NATO) or he and his puppets are 'gone'.

 

[Juhazi]

^That letter carries the schitzophrenic-paranoid story they believe. Impossible to start a real discussion and negotiations...

Finland is not a member of NATO, only a companion and member of EU, like Sweden.

By the way - how many handshakes away form Putin are you? I have only one between, by two persons...

 

[Raindog123]

Only a written declaration of NATO that they won't let Ukraine join (what the talks were about and NATO would not do) or the official government being Russian marionettes like Poshenko was till 2019, may end the occupation.

Because NATO wants to expand and now there is a president who is not a Russian Puppet this has happened.

The population VERY sadly pays the price for Putins fears and delusional thinking.

You are naive if you believe such written declaration will change anything. This “NATO expansion threat“ is nothing but an excuse — the actual sole purpose of the invasion is Putin’s continuing political and information warfare for the minds/beliefs of “Putin’s subjects” — the Russian citizens at home. As any dictator, to justify his actions Putin needs ”an enemy”. Whether it’s a “Neo-nazi Ukraine”, “corrupt West”, NATO, or all of them combined… It’s always someone else to blame, to threaten by, to divert attention onto from Putin‘s own wrongdoing and issues at home, to brainwash.

If you don’t believe me, check any Russian state-owned news outlet‘s coverage of the “operation in Ukraine”… and re-read Putin’s public addresses to the Russians… and see what‘s happening to the anti-war protesters in Russia… or re-read the above letter to Canada…

 

[BlueTunes]

@amirm @AdamG247 @BDWoody This is in full violation of the rules here. My apologies in advance. ASR is about as close as I get to social media and I'd like to share a few thoughts.

I'm a long time immigrant from Russia, but I have family in both Ukraine and Russia, including some that are at this moment living on the frontlines. They are proud—not even the risk of death compels them to leave.

I'm ashamed of my homeland. I'm also acutely aware of the historical facts and circumstances that have brought us here. Despite that, and despite having every conceivable distance from the decisions made by the current Russian government, I feel responsible for their effort to disrupt Ukrainian political and economic life, to incite and embrace belligerent nationalism, strangle the moral sense of our population and proceed with the invasion. My people, after all. Blood of my blood. A body whose actions I can't control.

These past few days have marked a turning point in my life whose direction I am only barely beginning to glimpse. I feel permanently altered.

Слава Україні.

The people have the power.

Only the people of Russia can change its affairs.

If you don't like what your country does, it is beholden on you to change it.

 

[amper42]

The people have the power.

Only the people of Russia can change its affairs.

If you don't like what your country does, it is beholden on you to change it.

How has that worked out for North Korean people or the hundreds of recent Russian protesters that were arrested in the last two days. It's not as easy as it sounds when you don't live in a democracy. Those that don't fall in line disappear.

 

[BlueTunes]

How has that worked out for North Korean people or the hundreds of recent Russian protesters that were arrested in the last two days. It's not as easy as it sounds when you don't live in a democracy. Those that don't fall in line disappear.

The same way it worked out for any democracy.
Bloodshed and sacrifice.

Democracy and freedom isn't easy.

 

[Bleib]

Should we go that route and talk about what sovereign states, democratic states, countries with democratically elected leaders should be allowed to do without a maniac with a lot of military power starting to kill them?

Unfortunately, NATO can not intervene militarily, no one can because Putin has indirectly threatened with nuclear weapons. And what that man is capable of doing, if he is threatened, we probably all understand. These are not just empty words on Putin's part.

No need to. If we actually followed international laws then lots of even western leaders would have been sent to Hague. And I know it's not even largely known in the west that a large portion of the western democratic countries gladly support just about any dictatorship just as long as business is great. My viewpoint is more through the eyes of humanitarian organizations and through that lens it's all too easy to drag most countries into the mud. Or rather, they've already placed themselves in it.

 

[thorvat]

How has that worked out for North Korean people or the hundreds of recent Russian protesters that were arrested in the last two days. It's not as easy as it sounds when you don't live in a democracy. Those that don't fall in line disappear.

Let's not forget China, as Taiwan can easilly and soon be next Ukraine.

 

[Veri]

Let's not forget China, as Taiwan can easilly and soon be next Ukraine.

After corona, now this humanitarian crisis Ukraine/Russia/world, please no China/Taiwan kind of situation next, I think I've just about had enough of living in "historical" times....

 

[DanielT]

No need to. If we actually followed international laws then lots of even western leaders would have been sent to Hague. And I know it's not even largely known in the west that a large portion of the western democratic countries gladly support just about any dictatorship just as long as business is great. My viewpoint is more through the eyes of humanitarian organizations and through that lens it's all too easy to drag most countries into the mud. Or rather, they've already placed themselves in it.

Certainly power before the right, dirty political game. Economic interests and so on but that in itself does not detract from the aspect of what I mentioned. You should not be naive, but at the same time you must stand up for ideals.

One of Putin's "motives":

Putin’s claim to rid Ukraine of Nazis is especially absurd given its history

In his address to the Russian people on Feb. 24, 2022, Putin said the purpose was to “protect people” who had been “subjected to bullying and genocide … for the last eight years. And for this we will strive for the demilitarization and denazification of Ukraine.”

Putin’s claim to rid Ukraine of Nazis is especially absurd given its history

A Holocaust historian explains why Ukrainian history needs to be understood in terms of both past violence against Jews as well as the state’s pluralistic vision.

theconversation.com

It is Greater Russia and domination that make Putin horny:

Complete life-threatening maniac with lots of military power.

 

[thorvat]

After corona, now this humanitarian crisis Ukraine/Russia/world, please no China/Taiwan kind of situation next, I think I've just about had enough of living in "historical" times....

I'm sure you didn't mean it like that, but you are thinking about yourself here and not about those poor folks. Feel thankfull as you didn't have to live through something like that instead.

 

[voodooless]

please no

asking nicely won’t cut it, I’m afraid

 

[thorvat]

asking nicely won’t cut it, I’m afraid

Introducing sanctions won't either, as China is in a much better position than Russia toward west world.

 

[kceenav]

On the argument that NATO has spread eastward, contrary to an earlier promise not to do so, the following article is instructive: Die Zeit (german newspaper): 'Der Geschichtsvollzieher' (I have no idea whether automated translation will keep the essential statements intact ...)

In any case, the fact is that NATO has basically expanded only when countries have applied for it. They did so in particular because they distrusted Russia's lasting willingness to keep the peace (and not to interfere extortionately in the affairs of sovereign states). As one can see, they were absolutely right to do so.