Russian Invasion of Ukraine

[ZolaIII]

Слава Богу, свобода людям.
And it's the same people which makes this horrible. NATO is a joint criminal organisation which did same and worse in the end of 90's again to that very same people (in a hart of Europe). They were never held responsible till this day's. If you can remember US did pretty much the same to Cuba and are still punishing them even today. I don't justify any of this and they should all be held responsible but there is no justice only the truth, when they become one again only then all of this can settle back (so that all oppressed can get satisfaction).
I just hope this will end soon and there will not be much human casualties.

 

[thorvat]

Слава Богу, свобода людям.
And it's the same people which makes this horrible. NATO is a joint criminal organisation which did same and worse in the end of 90's again to that very same people (in a hart of Europe). They were never held responsible till this day's. If you can remember US did pretty much the same to Cuba and are still punishing them even today. I don't justify any of this and they should all be held responsible but there is no justice only the truth, when they become one again only then all of this can settle back (so that all oppressed can get satisfaction).
I just hope this will end soon and there will not be much human casualties.

Pathetic demagogy.. It would deserve laughing, but as it backed up by tanks and rocket launchers it can only be stopped by the same means.

 

[modes]

Слава Богу, свобода людям.
And it's the same people which makes this horrible. NATO is a joint criminal organisation which did same and worse in the end of 90's again to that very same people (in a hart of Europe). They were never held responsible till this day's. If you can remember US did pretty much the same to Cuba and are still punishing them even today. I don't justify any of this and they should all be held responsible but there is no justice only the truth, when they become one again only then all of this can settle back (so that all oppressed can get satisfaction).
I just hope this will end soon and there will not be much human casualties.

Please no retranslating narratives of the kgb midget.

 

[Juhazi]

Please let us NOT START A WAR here at ASR! We can easily have different opinions about the situation and means to change it. Blaming others (opinions) ignorant or stupid here, doesn't help.

 

[vilnis]

)

Слава Богу, свобода людям.
Un tie paši cilvēki to padara briesmīgu. NATO ir kopīga noziedzīga organizācija, kas 90. gadu beigās darīja to pašu un vēl ļaunāku ar tiem pašiem cilvēkiem (lielajā Eiropas daļā). Viņi nekad netika saukti pie atbildības līdz šai dienai. Ja atceraties, ASV izdarīja gandrīz to pašu ar Kubu un joprojām tos soda. Es neattaisnoju neko no tā, un viņi visi ir jāsauc pie atbildības, bet taisnības nav tikai patiesība, kad viņi atkal kļūst par vienu, tad tas viss var nokārtoties (lai visi apspiestie saņemtu gandarījumu).
Es tikai ceru, ka tas drīz beigsies un nebūs daudz cilvēku upuru.

Pizdjoz

 

[ZolaIII]

Pathetic demagogy.. It would deserve laughing, but as it backed up by tanks and rocket launchers it can only be stopped by the same means.

That line of thinking actually caused all of the mentioned (guns and bigger guns to counter them). Only thing to settle this down is a culture and mutual respect to cultural differences. We should make governments obsolete and instead turn to culture.

 

[ZolaIII]

)

Pizdjoz

Sure I am for saying all of them should be held responsible.

 

[Raindog123]

We should make governments obsolete and instead turn to culture

Some would argue, they tried exactly that in 1917 in the above mentioned Russia… And then some “human garbage” not interested in “turning to culture” quickly usurped that government vacuum…

 

[thorvat]

That line of thinking actually caused all of the mentioned (guns and bigger guns to counter them). Only thing to settle this down is a culture and mutual respect to cultural differences. We should make governments obsolete and instead turn to culture.

Sure. You can start with your own government, that would make for a better world immediately.

 

[Digital_Thor]

On the argument that NATO has spread eastward, contrary to an earlier promise not to do so, the following article is instructive: Die Zeit (german newspaper): 'Der Geschichtsvollzieher' (I have no idea whether automated translation will keep the essential statements intact ...)

In any case, the fact is that NATO has basically expanded only when countries have applied for it. They did so in particular because they distrusted Russia's lasting willingness to keep the peace (and not to interfere extortionately in the affairs of sovereign states). As one can see, they were absolutely right to do so.

But this will be used as a counterargument for Putin, to say that NATO did not keep their end of the deal - like who did it first - who will take the first step. Putin seems to always make it sound like he was the one to open his arms and conduct diplomacy and willingness - not peaceful though.
Putin has for years talked about downgrading nuclear weapons, but that it should be a mutual thing for all participants. In a way that makes sense, since it would be kinda naive to think that Putin would just tag along with no proof. Might be crazy, but he does not seem stupid at all.... which makes it scary.

 

[jhaider]

As a Ukrainian born…I'm a native Russian speaker, who feels a deep connection to my Russian neighbours, since we are, after all, brothers who speak the same language and have a similar culture.

Just like President Zelensky!

I hope he is able to stay alive because I think his people and the world generally need someone to look up to today.

We all have heartfelt sympathy for Ukraine and its people.

Hear!

So no rational justification (even a deplorable rational justification) whatsoever.

I’m not sure he has one beyond staying in power. As she often does, Dr. Maddow did a masterful job of explaining why Putin got us here and where we might go.

Putin's failure as a leader drives his resentment of Ukraine democracy

Rachel Maddow outlines the poor job Vladimir Putin has done governing Russia and makes the case that part of Putin's motivation for sabotaging democracy in neighboring countries as well as in more distant Western countries is to discourage Russians from realizing how much better their lives...

www.msnbc.com

 

[Digital_Thor]

Also... Ukraine is like a giant food chamber... with some of the most fertile soil on the planet. I remember someone saying, that maybe there would be fewer wars in the Middle East.... if their main produce was - Broccoli.
.

 

[ZolaIII]

Some would argue, they tried exactly that in 1917 in the above mentioned Russia… And then some “human garbage” not interested in “turning to culture” quickly usurped that government vacuum…

Not ideologically and no it didn't happen that way. They (communism) turned against culture and it's very own beat (religious beliefs and tradition) on very shallow ideological cover for a friend which by the way existed long before and worked well (agrarian association as it didn't imply turning it's back to culture). If you don't want to put things to their real feats on the ground you can't expect them to stand.

 

[amirm]

Folks, no arguments or fights in this thread...

 

[Raindog123]

But this will be used as a counterargument for Putin, to say that NATO did not keep their end of the deal - like who did it first - who will take the first step

So, as another “counter argument”, absorbing Ukraine into Russia actually brings “NATO borders” clothier to Russia, not pushes them farther away!

Not to mention, that there were some totally surreal times (after the Soviet Union fall) — now unfortunately long gone — when Russia (as a country, and not just a handful of wealthy elitists on their shopping sprees) was very welcome in joining the West. Including being invited as a NATO observer, with a real potential of full membership (against global religious fundamentalism and terrorism)... Again, unfortunately those times are long gone, and I doubt the western democracies are to blame for it.

 

[ZolaIII]

Sure. You can start with your own government, that would make for a better world immediately.

I can't because there is no democracy in my country, only the dictatorship of west and EU.

 

[thorvat]

I can't because there is no democracy in my country, only the dictatorship of west and EU.

Oh, sure.. Don't forget CIA and how it all started in Ukraine..

 

[voodooless]

Also... Ukraine is like a giant food chamber... with some of the most fertile soil on the planet. I remember someone saying, that maybe there would be fewer wars in the Middle East.... if their main produce was - Broccoli.
.

Funny how the Netherlands is nr 2 in agri-export (behind US). We’re one of the most densely populated countries in the world, and Ukrainian is 40x bigger.

 

[AudioJester]

Do the majority of the Russian people support Putin and the invasion?

Attacking cities/civilian populations is not something i can comprehend from down under

 

[kceenav]

But this will be used as a counterargument for Putin, to say that NATO did not keep their end of the deal - like who did it first - who will take the first step. Putin seems to always make it sound like he was the one to open his arms and conduct diplomacy and willingness - not peaceful though.
Putin has for years talked about downgrading nuclear weapons, but that it should be a mutual thing for all participants. In a way that makes sense, since it would be kinda naive to think that Putin would just tag along with no proof. Might be crazy, but he does not seem stupid at all.... which makes it scary.

I am not sure I understand your point ... In the article I linked the view that NATO didn't honor its own promises is put into perspective. Which is the context of the year 1990, when the Warsaw Pact still existed and any idea of Poland etc. joining NATO was incredibly far fetched (and actually NOT discussed in any form; and most definitely not during the negotiations of "2-plus-4-Vertrag" [= "Two-plus-four contract" in English?]). These alleged "promises" were instead referring to the status of the about to be re-unified Germany.

Plus, as others already have indicated, years later, when Putin had become president, he at first wasn't at all opposed (or so it seemed..) to the idea of Russia itself one day becoming part of NATO. And Putin himself signed further treaties affirming the sovereignty of Ukraine, including its right to decide for itself how to develop in the future (and if I am not mistaken, at that time this explicitly included the question of whether it wanted to associate closer with western countries [would have to read the article again to make sure I got that correctly, though]).

Anyhow. Putin has changed his mind since then ...