Review and Measurements of PS Audio PerfectWave DirectStream DAC

[Sal1950]

Any chance you just need a new valve or 2?

Yep, his old valve may have sprung a leak.

 

[Cortes]

I see that the DP-777 was $5k and uses valves (tubes) in the output <https://www.stereophile.com/content/abbingdon-music-research-dp-777-da-processor>. Any chance you just need a new valve or 2?

It's the motherboard which is broken. Before, under warranty, the USB module broke as well.

Anyway, better accept the loss, learn the lesson, and move on.

 

[AudioSceptic]

It's the motherboard which is broken. Before, under warranty, the USB module broke as well.

Anyway, better accept the loss, learn the lesson, and move on.

I'm sorry to hear that. I'd expect much, much better from such an expensive (and apparently well built) product.

 

[Sal1950]

It's the motherboard which is broken. Before, under warranty, the USB module broke as well.

Anyway, better accept the loss, learn the lesson, and move on.

That really sucks, sorry to hear it.
We hear way too much of very expensive high end audio products coming up short in the reliability department.
It does seem to focus more on these relatively new companies, due I would guess on their lack of long term experience in product design and not doing extensive durability testing?

 

[AudioSceptic]

That really sucks, sorry to hear it.
We hear way too much of very expensive high end audio products coming up short in the reliability department.
It does seem to focus more on these relatively new companies, due I would guess on their lack of long term experience in product design and not doing extensive durability testing?

AMR started in 2000. I don't know when it was launched but the DP-777 was tested by Stereophile in 2012. Surely long enough to learn how to make a reliable product?

 

[YSC]

That really sucks, sorry to hear it.
We hear way too much of very expensive high end audio products coming up short in the reliability department.
It does seem to focus more on these relatively new companies, due I would guess on their lack of long term experience in product design and not doing extensive durability testing?

And it seems those failures always comes in the heat department as root cause, I can't imagine a proper designer knowing how to do all those circuit designing and FPGA programming don't know the importance of heat dissipation on electronics like when I learn how to assemble a DIY PC! IMO building a long lasting great product costing multi grand range is a better idea, as normal customer likely suggest your product to their friends wanting to buy one which can be used for decades, and rich customers don't care and upgrade whenever you got a new model out, building something which breaks right past warranty is a way to tell your existing customers to steer themselves and their friends away.

 

[LuckyLuke575]

That really sucks, sorry to hear it.
We hear way too much of very expensive high end audio products coming up short in the reliability department.
It does seem to focus more on these relatively new companies, due I would guess on their lack of long term experience in product design and not doing extensive durability testing?

It's cool to own high end and unique, innovative equipment, but it also carries with it a degree of risk. I imagine that there's a lot of hype and salesmanship on black magic tech that goes down at the audio stores and hifi expos and people end up getting sucked into spending several grand on a piece of kit, only to have it fail or perform on a substandard level.

 

[Sal1950]

It's cool to own high end and unique, innovative equipment, but it also carries with it a degree of risk. I imagine that there's a lot of hype and salesmanship on black magic tech that goes down at the audio stores and hifi expos and people end up getting sucked into spending several grand on a piece of kit, only to have it fail or perform on a substandard level.

Back in 1990 I bought a pair of the new VTL tube monoblock amps. The first pair failed shortly after I received them and the dealer just exchanged them for a second pair. The second pair failed in exactly the same way shortly after I got them. I was lucky as at the time I had a friend that was a super guru on tube gear (the @restorer-john of Chicago) that offered to take a look. Fairly quickly he spotted some questionable solder joints in the feedback circuit on the board. He touched up the joints on both amps and I then ran those amps for the next 20 years without issue. Quite some time later I learned that VTL had been having issues with their wave soldering system in the early years of their US production and lots of gear was suffering from it.
Can't tell you how upset I was at the time, the cost of those amps was way beyond my pay scale and more than I should have ever spent on HiFi at the time. I can still hear my wife of the time going on about having spent all that money on some POS. grrrrrrr

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

Pass on this and buy a new great and cheap DAC. For old enough people around here, we have all been victims of marketing in some moment of our lives. I've a broken (a few months after warranty expired) multi $K AMR DP-777 dac serving as a great paperweight.

Quite a long thread here about troubles with AMR 777

 

[gikigill]

Their sister brand ifi seems to be pretty good considering the reviews and general opinion.

Owned three ifi pieces and they all work and sound good.

 

[Ajp]

Anyone with half of a clue about psychoacoustics knows that you are fooling yourself, and that you like how your DAC sounds, not because of the audio signal it produces, but because your brain if fooling you.

And you are so limited in income that you have to save up to buy DAC's that you falsely believe will produce a different sonic signature? What a waste! The belief that such sonic differences exist is a fallacy that science has dis-proven!

What has been proven is that you do not understand science (psychoacoustics) and objective audibility testing, and are blissfully unaware of the many ways that your brain can fool you.

View attachment 41710

P.S. Analogies to video display variation based on the color-level selection is the equivalent of tone controls, and is not valid. That is like stating the when you turn up a bass or treble control, or activate the loudness control on an amplifier, you can hear a difference. Of course you can hear such differences. But with any well-engineered DAC, we are talking about differences well below the threshold of human hearing.

Yikes, these are painful to read. I know you are preaching science, but do you need to beat someone down with it?

Music is not just about audible perfection. Something can measure poorly and still be very enjoyable because those imperfections flavor the music in a way that some find enjoyable. There are thousands of tube amp and preamp users out there who swear by devices that measure poorly because they like the sonic flavor those tube which cause measurable harmonic distortion, add to their music. They ARE NOT WRONG, just like people who have this DAC are not wrong. I am one of those people. I had others that measured much better on the lists here and sold the last one for this Directstream DAC - and no, I didn’t save for years to buy it, I can afford to buy what I want, and chose this one. If you are curious, I sold the previous DAC after doing a blind test with a dealer where I didn’t even know what was being changed in the audio chain that included my original DAC. I chose the PS Audio DAC as the one I preferred 8 out of 8 times, not knowing what was being changed (I thought it was the amplifier). So it’s not just the brain fooling you to help you justify a bad purchase.

Great music evokes emotion, and it does it not because it is technically superior or delivered by acoustically perfect sources or comes from the best voices, it does it by touching soul (and if you disagree with that, I don’t understand why you listen to music, you may as well just read it). Can you measure that scientifically? NO, no you can not, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t real. Johnny Cash’s voice sounded like shit by the end of his life from a pure technical standpoint, yet American IV is one of my favorite albums because that wretched and tortured voice imparted so much pure emotion that it moves you.

I drive a BMW because I love the feel. Are there better measuring cars that go faster, corner better and stop sooner in it’s price range, absolutely, but I prefer this one... Just like I prefer this DAC.

At the end of the day, measurements are important. I look to measurements to help me understand why I like or dislike something. Measurements are also important to keep manufacturers honest and to let you know whether you are paying for numerical claims that are simply false. But there is no reason to Use measurements to demean someone just because they choose to use their frontal lobe vs their parietal lobe.

Let’s not demean each other for how we choose to spend our money, because if we want to get into that game, I have a couple of economic degrees that say we are all idiot for spending all of this money on audio equipment!\

@amirm side question, I would LOVE to see reviews from you that go a step farther. I enjoy the measurements, but how about a paragraph that discusses the effects IN listening. “Harmonic distortion is high...that’s why on this song we don’t hear the full range of her voice...” things like that. Because I am not an electrical or audio engineer, so I and many others (including those who pretend they do because they read these reviews) don’t really understand whether some of these shortcomings are even audible or what impact they have on the listening experience. I think if people understood that more and knew what they were listening for, these great measurement reviews would then become great buying guides. You’d probably also have less people saying “yeah but it sounds great so what”.

My 2 cents keep up the great work!

 

[amirm]

@amirm side question, I would LOVE to see reviews from you that go a step farther. I enjoy the measurements, but how about a paragraph that discusses the effects IN listening. “Harmonic distortion is high...that’s why on this song we don’t hear the full range of her voice...” things like that. Because I am not an electrical or audio engineer, so I and many others (including those who pretend they do because they read these reviews) don’t really understand whether some of these shortcomings are even audible or what impact they have on the listening experience. I think if people understood that more and knew what they were listening for, these great measurement reviews would then become great buying guides. You’d probably also have less people saying “yeah but it sounds great so what”.

I have such feedback in this very review:

I started the testing with my audiophile, audio-show, test tracks. You know, the very well recorded track with lucious detail and "black backgrounds." I immediately noticed lack of detail in PerfectWave DS DAC. It was as if someone just put a barrier between you and the source. Mind you, it was subtle but it was there. I repeated this a few times and while it was not always there with all music, I could spot it on some tracks.

Next I played some of my bass heaving tracks i use for headphone testing. Here, it was easy to notice that bass impact was softented. But also, highs were exaggerated due to higher distortion. Despite loss of high frequency hearing, I found that accentuation unpleasant. WIth tracks that had lisping issues with female vocals for example, the DS DAC made that a lot worse.

In general, the effect of too high a distortion is to make the music brighter, and slightly more edgy. And detail can get lost when music gets busy.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Yikes, these are painful to read. I know you are preaching science, but do you need to beat someone down with it?

Music is not just about audible perfection. Something can measure poorly and still be very enjoyable because those imperfections flavor the music in a way that some find enjoyable. There are thousands of tube amp and preamp users out there who swear by devices that measure poorly because they like the sonic flavor those tube which cause measurable harmonic distortion, add to their music. They ARE NOT WRONG, just like people who have this DAC are not wrong. I am one of those people. I had others that measured much better on the lists here and sold the last one for this Directstream DAC - and no, I didn’t save for years to buy it, I can afford to buy what I want, and chose this one. If you are curious, I sold the previous DAC after doing a blind test with a dealer where I didn’t even know what was being changed in the audio chain that included my original DAC. I chose the PS Audio DAC as the one I preferred 8 out of 8 times, not knowing what was being changed (I thought it was the amplifier). So it’s not just the brain fooling you to help you justify a bad purchase.

Great music evokes emotion, and it does it not because it is technically superior or delivered by acoustically perfect sources or comes from the best voices, it does it by touching soul (and if you disagree with that, I don’t understand why you listen to music, you may as well just read it). Can you measure that scientifically? NO, no you can not, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t real. Johnny Cash’s voice sounded like shit by the end of his life from a pure technical standpoint, yet American IV is one of my favorite albums because that wretched and tortured voice imparted so much pure emotion that it moves you.

I drive a BMW because I love the feel. Are there better measuring cars that go faster, corner better and stop sooner in it’s price range, absolutely, but I prefer this one... Just like I prefer this DAC.

At the end of the day, measurements are important. I look to measurements to help me understand why I like or dislike something. Measurements are also important to keep manufacturers honest and to let you know whether you are paying for numerical claims that are simply false. But there is no reason to Use measurements to demean someone just because they choose to use their frontal lobe vs their parietal lobe.

Let’s not demean each other for how we choose to spend our money, because if we want to get into that game, I have a couple of economic degrees that say we are all idiot for spending all of this money on audio equipment!\

@amirm side question, I would LOVE to see reviews from you that go a step farther. I enjoy the measurements, but how about a paragraph that discusses the effects IN listening. “Harmonic distortion is high...that’s why on this song we don’t hear the full range of her voice...” things like that. Because I am not an electrical or audio engineer, so I and many others (including those who pretend they do because they read these reviews) don’t really understand whether some of these shortcomings are even audible or what impact they have on the listening experience. I think if people understood that more and knew what they were listening for, these great measurement reviews would then become great buying guides. You’d probably also have less people saying “yeah but it sounds great so what”.

My 2 cents keep up the great work!

Well. Aside from most things you said. A proper blind test is not just a blind test it needs to be level matched controlled test. This DAC appears to have lower level on XLR output of 2.8V rather than usual 4V. It's probably the reason why you preferred it.

As you like it, there's nothing wrong with it. This whole thing is to be against unrealistic false claims that are not supported by evidence or theory. If you like it then you like it. What we say about performance won't affect what you perceive. Pretty simple.

 

[Ajp]

I have such feedback in this very review:

In general, the effect of too high a distortion is to make the music brighter, and slightly more edgy. And detail can get lost when music gets busy.

Apologies, I should have been clearer. Would it be possible to point out the tracks you are listening to and when these points arise point those out. I would love to listen to the same tracks and listen for that same distortion. As they likely fall at extremes of the range it would possibly make for good reference tracks when listening to other DACs as well.

 

[Ajp]

Well. Aside from most things you said. A proper blind test is not just a blind test it needs to be level matched controlled test. This DAC appears to have lower level on XLR output of 2.8V rather than usual 4V. It's probably the reason why you preferred it.

As you like it, there's nothing wrong with it. This whole thing is to be against unrealistic false claims that are not supported by evidence or theory. If you like it then you like it. What we say about performance won't affect what you perceive. Pretty simple.

A blind test that wasn’t level matched would have led me to dislike this DAC as it would have been significantly quieter because of the lower XLR output and the human ears belief that louder is better. So I would assume the opposite would have been the case were they not level matched.

I agree with that. The reason I use this site is to make sure I am not being lied to by manufacturers. I have been reading reviews here for years and normally laugh when these arguments pop up. This one however just seemed to get particularly nasty with the names and general treatment of @amnesia0287 . Granted, he wasn’t doing himself any favors, but he was backed into a corner with some people going pretty low in their responses.

In any event. I enjoy the site and it has helped me not make several purchases in the past.

 

[beefkabob]

Yikes, these are painful to read.

A road isn't music. The comparison is false.

If, for some reason, you want harmonics and distortion added to your music, I suggest a clean DAC that doesn't mess with your sound at all. Then use software to modify the sound, or have fun buying various preamps with tubes and such.

The part of the review you wanted him to add is a part he already had, and it's the least useful part of the review. Possibly misleading.

Manufacturers use confusion to deceive and rip off buyers. When they ship a garbage product for obscene prices, they deserve to be eviscerated in reviews.

 

[beefkabob]

A blind test that wasn’t level matched would have led me to dislike this DAC as it would have been significantly quieter because of the lower XLR output and the human ears belief that louder is better. So I would assume the opposite would have been the case were they not level matched.

I agree with that. The reason I use this site is to make sure I am not being lied to by manufacturers..

The human mind doesn't always or automatically prefer what is louder. If there's a subtle difference, maybe.

I think you're using the site for the right reasons.

 

[Ajp]

A road isn't music. The comparison is false.

If, for some reason, you want harmonics and distortion added to your music, I suggest a clean DAC that doesn't mess with your sound at all. Then use software to modify the sound, or have fun buying various preamps with tubes and such.

The part of the review you wanted him to add is a part he already had, and it's the least useful part of the review. Possibly misleading.

Manufacturers use confusion to deceive and rip off buyers. When they ship a garbage product for obscene prices, they deserve to be eviscerated in reviews.

Why buy a clean DAC then buy a distortion laden preamp? Isn’t that just as bad of measured purity is the aim?

I have to disagree that it is the least useful part of the review (I clarified my ask there in a later post). As noted, I am not an engineer, I don’t know what affect the poor measurements have on actual listening, so having listening reviews I can track back and recreate not only solidifies the science, it also helps people like myself understand what Amirm is speaking to. Sure, you and many others probably know the exact affect it will have, but I assume this isn’t just a site for audio and electrical engineers.

And I don’t believe in going easy on manufacturers. I have read this site for years and used it to aid in buying decisions despite the fact that I believe that there is more to recreating music than just measurements. So if you want to rip PS Audio, be my guest.

What DAC do you use btw?

 

[beefkabob]

Why buy a clean DAC then buy a distortion laden preamp? Isn’t that just as bad of measured purity is the aim?

I have to disagree that it is the least useful part of the review (I clarified my ask there in a later post). As noted, I am not an engineer, I don’t know what affect the poor measurements have on actual listening, so having listening reviews I can track back and recreate not only solidifies the science, it also helps people like myself understand what Amirm is speaking to. Sure, you and many others probably know the exact affect it will have, but I assume this isn’t just a site for audio and electrical engineers.

And I don’t believe in going easy on manufacturers. I have read this site for years and used it to aid in buying decisions despite the fact that I believe that there is more to recreating music than just measurements. So if you want to rip PS Audio, be my guest.

What DAC do you use btw?

You buy a clean DAC so you have a clean source for everything. Then you buy a clean preamp and a dirty preamp, because you want tubes to affect the sound sometimes and not others. Then you buy a clean amp so that you can amplify whatever you want.

I mean, I wouldn't do any of that. It's just what you might want if you like to add distortion and harmonics. More power to you. At least know what you're doing.

I'm no audio engineer. I can't predict exactly what something will sound like, but I do know that adding harmonics and distortion will change the sound.

I mainly use the internal DACs in my active speakers. Then there's a basic Grace balanced DAC that runs to a sub that has a DSP, so it's doing an extra ADC DAC conversion on the way. Doesn't even theoretically matter when the sub is only running up to about 50 or 60hz, where distortion can get relatively high without being heard. I'm sure that I'm nowhere near that level of distortion, especially since I'm running the sub way, way under its peak power. I don't want to destroy the house.

 

[magicscreen]

I bet this PS Audio DAC has a great sound.
I listened to a phono stage from this company and it has great sound.