Review and Measurements of Benchmark DAC3

[tobes]

I didn't make any claims, you did.
But with zero supporting evidence.

You clipped off my - that was a joke, but clearly not a good one.

 

[amirm]

You clipped off my - that was a joke, but clearly not a good one.

Sal is into clipping business. Usually lawn but sometimes he does that with posts....

 

[Blumlein 88]

Sal is into clipping business. Usually lawn but sometimes he does that with posts....

I thought Sal was the Chicago Crusher? Not the Chicago Clipper.

 

[Sal1950]

I thought Sal was the Chicago Crusher? Not the Chicago Clipper.

I've been known to clip a wallet now and then.

 

[Thomas savage]

I've been known to clip a wallet now and then.

Bet those 2 ex wife’s clipped your wallet real good ..

 

[tobes]

Well since all you need do is swap inputs, maybe some blind testing is called for if you can engage a switching person. I actually agree with Sal that you (me, Sal, any human) is too easily biased by what they know. Sometimes level matching greatly reduces differences you thought you hear. In your case not so. If it holds up when you don't know the identity that would be something. And if it doesn't that would be something too.

Yes understood.
FWIW, the initial test I did was conducted using the same input - just swapping the interconnect to the output of the D50 or the DAC3.
Of course the change wasn't instantaneous, I had to stop the player, change over the DAC in the player settings and then move the cable and replay the music.
Obviously without a blind test there is no 'science' or 'proof' to my comment - but I thought that was implicit in my warning.
While I appreciate the measurements offered by this forum, I am unfortunate in that I hear (to my satisfaction) and appreciate the audible differences in components.
I always get a chuckle from this Gary Oliver cartoon:

 

[Sal1950]

Bet those 2 ex wife’s clipped your wallet real good ..

I think you got some experience in that department too. LOL

 

[Thomas savage]

I think you got some experience in that department too. LOL

Yea I guess it’s similar but I gave the money upfront

 

[HifiGuy]

ASIO4ALL causes problems when the OS sample rate and output sample rates are different. There is no reason to ever use ASIO4ALL with a Benchmark DAC2 or DAC3 converter. It will only cause problems such as those shown in this review.

Hi John, could you write some words about the unbalanced performance. Why the measurements of Amir are so bad?

 

[bennetng]

In my experience ASIO4ALL is a wrapper for Windows' "mixer bypass" mode, which means Kernel Streaming for XP and WASAPI exclusive for Vista and later. For a simple class compliant "driverless" device it usually works fine, but for some studio interfaces or gaming soundcards with dedicated DSP/FPGA chips it can result in loss of functionalities like multiclient support, sample rate switching, hardware-based SRC/mixer and so on.

I have no comment about the sidebands and linearity though.

 

[raband]

So if Amir loaded the "proper" ASIO drivers and ran the test again?.........

 

[SIY]

So if Amir loaded the "proper" ASIO drivers and ran the test again?.........

If Amir doesn't want to, I'll volunteer.

 

[Soniclife]

If Amir doesn't want to, I'll volunteer.

I don't think he has a DAC3 available anymore.

 

[SIY]

If anyone else wants to loan one, I'll post the same measurement with the "official" drivers and with ASIO4ALL.

 

[Thomas savage]

If anyone else wants to loan one, I'll post the same measurement with the "official" drivers and with ASIO4ALL.

If benchmark are certain this is the issue , maybe they would send amir a DAC3 to test the theory.

I know amir is on a anti driver crusade but surely knowing why things measure the way they do when these anomaly occur is of merit, if for no other reason it furthers understanding though investigation and gives us all something to talk about keeping the discussion measurement focused to boot.

 

[Krunok]

From this article on Bencmark site it seems they included unbalanced connections only for compatibility purpose. Considering the impressive SNR figures of their DAC 3 and AHB2 amp one must admit it does make sense not to care much about unbalanced connections.

https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/balanced-vs-unbalanced-analog-interfaces

 

[DonH56]

Going from a good fully-differential ("balanced") circuit to single-ended (SE) can be a PITA. It can be a lot harder than it seems so I can understand from an engineering and cost perspective why SE might not be as good on a given design. It is not generally as simple as just taking one side of the output -- you lose all the common-mode rejection and distortion reduction, often become much more sensitive to the load, and can upset the operating point of the differential circuit. It takes extra circuitry and is hard to make as clean as the balanced design. They are often rather different circuits, not like many quasi-differential approaches, with fundamentally different designs. To use an ugly analogy, turning a sports car into a pickup truck is not easy and performance for one or both uses is often sacrificed. They are each great at what they do, what they were designed for, but do not easily fit the other role. Choose wisely for your application.

FWIWFM - Don

 

[raband]

I don't think he has a DAC3 available anymore.

Ah, think you're right.

 

[amirm]

Yes, the unit was returned to his owner. As Thomas says, I am happy to test another unit if Benchmark sends me one. I will test it with their drivers and ASIO4ALL and report. And of course any difference in jitter performance.

I looked at Benchmark Jitter test in the manual and unfortunately it is done completely different then mine. It uses a 10 kHz tone, bandpass filtered unlike my measurements that are done with J-test signal. What difference that can make, I don't know. Here is their results for reference:

 

[Krunok]

I will test it with their drivers and ASIO4ALL and report.

IMHO, the manufaturer provided driver is part of the product and it certainly makes sense to test with it as that is how the manufacturer intended the product to be used. Testing the product with WASAPI also makes sense as that is the standard to which we expect manufaturers to comply as well, while testing with ASIO4ALL is eh, well..

Installing so many drivers will eventually make a horrible mess of your PC but maybe creating a restore point before installing a driver and performing a system restore after you're finished can keep the situation under control.