Review and Measurements of Benchmark DAC3

[amirm]

What DAC costs $10,000 or more?

There are plenty. Here are just a fraction of the ones I know about:

This one is $22,000 I think.

Chord Dave is $12K.

Meridian Ultra DAC is $23K.

Berkeley Alpha Reference DAC is $20K.

I say there are at least 30 to 50 DACs above $10K price.

 

[amirm]

Curious if this SPDIF test went through ASIO4ALL?

https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...asurements-of-benchmark-dac3.3545/#post-85548

No. For S/PDIF I always use my Audio Precision analyzer as the source as I don't have a default way of generating them from my PC.

So yes, that does demonstrate that ASIO4ALL is transparent.

 

[derp1n]

Welcome, John. It's great to have you interacting with this community. Any comment on the DAC3's single ended performance as measured by Amir?

 

[Grave]

There are plenty. Here are just a fraction of the ones I know about:

That is hilarious.

 

[DonH56]

High-priced? https://www.dcsltd.co.uk/

Cheap version: dCS Debussy $11,495

Not sure the current price of the dCS Vivaldi stack; it was over $100k in 2012: The latest variation on the English company's theme are the four Vivaldi components, launched at the end of 2012 for a total price of $108,496. Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/dcs-vivaldi-digital-playback-system#Zd9sX3GpST64vLWt.99

 

[Blumlein 88]

And no one mentioned Trinity or MSB yet.

http://www.msbtechnology.com/dacs/

MSB now starting at $9950 and going up, way up to more than $80K. This being stereo. They do offer the 8 channel model for Home Theater at a cool $124,995. I'm glad they kept it under $125K.

The Trinity Reference DAC I'm not sure on the pricing at the moment, but it is around $35-40K.

As mentioned, there are at least dozens of $10k DACs and maybe a dozen or more $100K DACS.

 

[gepardcv]

No. For S/PDIF I always use my Audio Precision analyzer as the source as I don't have a default way of generating them from my PC.

Could you clarify what happens in this case? The AP appears as an audio output device on your Windows system, and you then use its own SPDIF output to feed the target DAC? If so, what driver are you using for the AP's audio output? ASIO4ALL or something else?

 

[Grave]

$100,000+ DAC's, for stable geniuses. . .

 

[tobes]

While I think the measurements presented by Amir are a valuable resource they may not tell the full story.
I have both a Benchmark DAC3L and a Topping D50 and connected both to single ended inputs on my Bryston BP26 preamp/Benchmark AHB2/Harbeth M30.1 setup.
Warning: subjective comment follows!
The DAC3L 'sounds' more transparent (to me) i.e. in the sense of elucidating fine detail, focus, foreground/field of depth clarity etc. Going by the measurements the D50 should edge out the DAC3 using the unbalanced connection, or at least sound as good - but it doesn't (to me).

 

[Blumlein 88]

While I think the measurements presented by Amir are a valuable resource they may not tell the full story.
I have both a Benchmark DAC3L and a Topping D50 and connected both to single ended inputs on my Bryston BP26 preamp/Benchmark AHB2/Harbeth M30.1 setup.
Warning: subjective comment follows!
The DAC3L 'sounds' more transparent (to me) i.e. in the sense of elucidating fine detail, focus, foreground/field of depth clarity etc. Going by the measurements the D50 should edge out the DAC3 using the unbalanced connection, or at least sound as good - but it doesn't (to me).

Is this with carefully matched levels? Not asking for blinded listening or anything, just matched levels.

It also occurs to me that the DAC3 will have much higher output level vs the D50 which could mean some difference in noise floors maybe. Though all your gear should have room to spare on that end of things.

 

[amirm]

Could you clarify what happens in this case? The AP appears as an audio output device on your Windows system, and you then use its own SPDIF output to feed the target DAC? If so, what driver are you using for the AP's audio output? ASIO4ALL or something else?

Windows is out of the loop on S/PDIF. The cable comes out of my analyzer and goes into the DAC. The Windows program only turns it on and off and sets its parameters. From there on, the AP is generating the signal independently.

AP does NOT look like an audio device. It is a proprietary machine that their software controls.

 

[tobes]

I didn't use an SPL meter to calibrate with a test tone - but maybe I can do that.
I put the DAC3L in HT mode where it puts out 2Vrms from the unbalanced outputs (confirmed by Amir's measurements). I can't find it but I think Amir measured the D50's output at 2Vrms also(?). So they should be close.
In any case, even if I play the DAC3L at an obviously lower level it still sounds more transparent.

 

[Sal1950]

Why would anyone spend $1,000+ or $10,000+ on a DAC when cheap DAC's are audibly transparent?

Now there's the million dollar question from a SQ prospective.
But the point of having attractive, high end quality appearing components can't be discounted.
But 5 figures?

 

[Sal1950]

While I think the measurements presented by Amir are a valuable resource they may not tell the full story.
I have both a Benchmark DAC3L and a Topping D50 and connected both to single ended inputs on my Bryston BP26 preamp/Benchmark AHB2/Harbeth M30.1 setup.
Warning: subjective comment follows!
The DAC3L 'sounds' more transparent (to me) i.e. in the sense of elucidating fine detail, focus, foreground/field of depth clarity etc. Going by the measurements the D50 should edge out the DAC3 using the unbalanced connection, or at least sound as good - but it doesn't (to me).

Sighted listening tests can have no value in a serious component evaluation. Expectation bias is too strong a influence to discount.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I didn't use an SPL meter to calibrate with a test tone - but maybe I can do that.
I put the DAC3L in HT mode where it puts out 2Vrms from the unbalanced outputs (confirmed by Amir's measurements). I can't find it but I think Amir measured the D50's output at 2Vrms also(?). So they should be close.
In any case, even if I play the DAC3L at an obviously lower level it still sounds more transparent.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...asurements-of-topping-d50-dac.2403/post-68175

1.997 volts for the D50.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...easurements-of-benchmark-dac3.3545/post-85707

1.98 volts for the DAC3.

So that should be close enough.

 

[tobes]

Sighted listening tests can have no value in a serious component evaluation. Expectation bias is too strong a influence to discount.

Yeah whatever.
I did give a warning, but still expected those that 'listen' with alligator clips attached to their ears to complain.
Please forgive me for using music to evaluate audio equipment. I will try to do better.

 

[tobes]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...asurements-of-topping-d50-dac.2403/post-68175

1.997 volts for the D50. I couldn't find where Amir confirmed HT put out 2 volts, but indeed that is what Benchmark says.

It's here: https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...ents-of-benchmark-dac3.3545/page-4#post-85707
So the Benchmark is actually down by 0.048dB on the higher of it's two channel measurements (0.083dB on the lower measured channel).
I certainly wouldn't claim to be able to hear that, but maybe @Sal1950 would.

 

[Blumlein 88]

It's here: https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...ents-of-benchmark-dac3.3545/page-4#post-85707
So the Benchmark is actually down by 0.048dB on the higher of it's two channel measurements (0.083dB on the lower measured channel).
I certainly wouldn't claim to be able to hear that, but maybe @Sal1950 would.

Well since all you need do is swap inputs, maybe some blind testing is called for if you can engage a switching person. I actually agree with Sal that you (me, Sal, any human) is too easily biased by what they know. Sometimes level matching greatly reduces differences you thought you hear. In your case not so. If it holds up when you don't know the identity that would be something. And if it doesn't that would be something too.

 

[Sal1950]

I certainly wouldn't claim to be able to hear that, but maybe @Sal1950 would

I didn't make any claims, you did.
But with zero supporting evidence.

 

[Grave]

Yeah whatever.
I did give a warning, but still expected those that 'listen' with alligator clips attached to their ears to complain.
Please forgive me for using music to evaluate audio equipment. I will try to do better.

Transparent DAC/amps do in fact sound the same, so there.