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Review and Measurements of Benchmark AHB2 Amp

tmtomh

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If you have something subjective to say just delineate it as being subjective...lol. You'll be fine..RFLMAO.

Fair enough - although I think Pat basically did that, at least to an extent. By saying he wasn't going to indulge in "audio poetry," he wasn't saying that he was therefore making objective assertions. "Sharing my experience"; "I ended up picking this one"; "I don't know if I could pass a blind test" - that seems like a pretty open admission that he's talking subjectively.

Yes, I understand that his claims about the amps he really didn't like do sound more like objective "these amps are clearly inferior to my two favorites" claims. But hey, no one's perfect. :)
 

DonH56

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When the AHB2 is used as a mono does it suffer in that it sees lower impedance for a given load. I am not technically astute in these matters so maybe I am not asking this question correctly. I have been told that an amp designed for stereo operation (like the AHB2) suffers in performance when used as a mono amp. Now some amps are specifically made for mono only operation and do not suffer the gremlins from stereo to mono.

Is this something that applies to the AHB2?

I have some new speakers, the Yamaha NS5000, and I am looking for some amplification. I am currently using a fantastic modded 200-watt Peachtree GAN1. However, that 'amp|dac|pre' is not easy to use since I need to use software for the volume control (via ROON) and I only have 1 SPDIF GAN1 input. I need a preamp with a few analog inputs. I have the Holo Serene pre and Benchmark LA4 pre to work with the NS5000 (likely the LA4) and some future amp.

The NS5000 specs


View attachment 287211
Any bridged amplifier "sees" an effective load that is half the load seen by a single channel, and the amplifier's output impedance is doubled (damping factor is halved). Most amplifiers are rated to twice the minimum load impedance when operated in bridged mode. And a number of mono amplifiers are also bridged designs. For that you get theoretically four times the output power (most spec less than that, often closer to a doubling, due to other factors at play like thermal management -- heat sinking -- and power supply capacity). You also gain some additional distortion cancellation and a little more noise. Note the output terminals "float" in a bridged design so be sure not to short any output connection to ground (this is more a problem on the test bench than in the real world). All of this is true for any bridged amplifier, stereo or mono. It is not a "gremlin" or likely to cause problems unless you have very hard-to-drive speakers dipping very low in impedance.

I know of several folk driving Revel Salon2 and other relatively hard-to-drive speakers using bridged AHB2s so I expect they will do fine driving your Yamaha speakers. You might want to check an online calculator (e.g. http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html) or measure to see if you really need that much power, however. I would start with one AHB2 and see if its (sophisticated) clipping indicators ever flash then invest in a second later if you really need it.

FWIWFM, HTH, IME, IMO, YMMV, my 0.000001 cent (microcent), etc. - Don
 

restorer-john

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Ultimately, Pat picked the amplifier he liked/enjoyed the most and bought it. For whatever reasons.

His money, his choice, and he made it perfectly clear his comparisons may or may not have passed the ASR approved subset of tests, which sadly, are not remotely indicative of the long term satisfaction one ultimately obtains from amplifiers. Just ask all those Topping PA5 buyers how it worked out for them...
 

restorer-john

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Any bridged amplifier "sees" an effective load that is half the load seen by a single channel, and the amplifier's output impedance is doubled (damping factor is halved). Most amplifiers are rated to twice the minimum load impedance when operated in bridged mode. And a number of mono amplifiers are also bridged designs. For that you get theoretically four times the output power (most spec less than that, often closer to a doubling, due to other factors at play like thermal management -- heat sinking -- and power supply capacity). You also gain some additional distortion cancellation and a little more noise. Note the output terminals "float" in a bridged design so be sure not to short any output connection to ground (this is more a problem on the test bench than in the real world). All of this is true for any bridged amplifier, stereo or mono. It is not a "gremlin" or likely to cause problems unless you have very hard-to-drive speakers dipping very low in impedance.

I know of several folk driving Revel Salon2 and other relatively hard-to-drive speakers using bridged AHB2s so I expect they will do fine driving your Yamaha speakers. You might want to check an online calculator (e.g. http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html) or measure to see if you really need that much power, however. I would start with one AHB2 and see if its (sophisticated) clipping indicators ever flash then invest in a second later if you really need it.

FWIWFM, HTH, IME, IMO, YMMV, my 0.000001 cent (microcent), etc. - Don

Have you seen any proper reviews of the NS-5000 where the phase/impedance is tested? I haven't.

They are a 6 ohm spec with a specified 3.5R minimum, but no other details. That puts the AHB-2 running in bridge mode into dangerous territory for potential shutdown at high levels, depending on where that minima is. Most likely it will be down in low-mid bass I would guess.
 

radix

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When the AHB2 is used as a mono does it suffer in that it sees lower impedance for a given load. I am not technically astute in these matters so maybe I am not asking this question correctly. I have been told that an amp designed for stereo operation (like the AHB2) suffers in performance when used as a mono amp. Now some amps are specifically made for mono only operation and do not suffer the gremlins from stereo to mono.

Is this something that applies to the AHB2?

The benchmark AHB2 is designed for both stereo or mono. I would not say that mono is some sort of afterthought.

The minimum nominal impedance is 3 ohms stereo and 6 ohms mono (as per the manual, p. 18). I'd say they would work with your speakers, assuming the speaker specs are accurate. The manual claims a minimum of 2.6-ohm (mono) is OK. If your speakers have bad dips, maybe they would clip? Full output would be 480W at 6-ohm, so that's really very loud, if your speakers could even handle that much power without bad distortion.

I use them in bridged mono into 8-ohm speakers without any problems.
 

DonH56

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Have you seen any proper reviews of the NS-5000 where the phase/impedance is tested? I haven't.

They are a 6 ohm spec with a specified 3.5R minimum, but no other details. That puts the AHB-2 running in bridge mode into dangerous territory for potential shutdown at high levels, depending on where that minima is. Most likely it will be down in low-mid bass I would guess.
No. It's a valid point, and you could be correct, given they are ported so the minima is probably in the LF range around the port tune frequency (I do not know what that is). They spec down to 26 Hz but at -10 dB, no -3 dB point, so a little hard to tell. But that's why I deferred to those using bridged pairs to drive Salon2's, which I know are a fairly difficult load (lower impedance and lower in sensitivity as well). The AHB2 is rated to 6-ohm "nominal" speakers in bridged mode, for what it's worth (OK, I know what you are thinking, that and a cup of Scotch gets you...)
 
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Sal1950

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are you happy now ?
I'm always happy, are you?

Fair enough - although I think Pat basically did that, at least to an extent. By saying he wasn't going to indulge in "audio poetry," he wasn't saying that he was therefore making objective assertions. "Sharing my experience"; "I ended up picking this one"; "I don't know if I could pass a blind test" - that seems like a pretty open admission that he's talking subjectively.

Yes, I understand that his claims about the amps he really didn't like do sound more like objective "these amps are clearly inferior to my two favorites" claims. But hey, no one's perfect. :)
LOL, I just have to laugh when folks will post purely subjective claims and then try to avoid being held to or asked about any type objective controls with that type of slippery disclaimer of his own claims ??? Why make them in the first place.
And then to strike back at SIY and ASR with the accusation,
"I see that this forum reached total level of absurd"
I'm sorry sir but as I already posted, what was absurd was your whole approach here. :facepalm:
 

restorer-john

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Those Salon 2s don't look too bad a load at all and you're right @DonH56 , the AHB-2 would be fine with them, even at obscene levels I'll bet. :)

Image from Stereophile March 2009 JA's review.

Here: https://www.stereophile.com/content/revel-ultima-salon2-loudspeaker-measurements
1684718518267.png


Being Japanese, I'd expect the Yamaha NS-5000s to be a pretty safe load too. Yamaha doesn't want to be destroying customer's amplifiers with all the drama that comes with that...
 

tmtomh

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I'm always happy, are you?


LOL, I just have to laugh when folks will post purely subjective claims and then try to avoid being held to or asked about any type objective controls with that type of slippery disclaimer of his own claims ??? Why make them in the first place.
And then to strike back at SIY and ASR with the accusation,
"I see that this forum reached total level of absurd"
I'm sorry sir but as I already posted, what was absurd was your whole approach here. :facepalm:

Per my agreement with SIY above, I don’t disagree with your point either.
 

DonH56

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Those Salon 2s don't look too bad a load at all and you're right @DonH56 , the AHB-2 would be fine with them, even at obscene levels I'll bet. :)

Image from Stereophile March 2009 JA's review.

Here: https://www.stereophile.com/content/revel-ultima-salon2-loudspeaker-measurements
View attachment 287223

Being Japanese, I'd expect the Yamaha NS-5000s to be a pretty safe load too. Yamaha doesn't want to be destroying customer's amplifiers with all the drama that comes with that...
That's better than I thought, must be getting senile... I was thinking 2.7 ohms min but spec is 3.7 ohms. Too many specs rattling around my little pea brain. Revel calls them 6 ohms nominal but I would probably say more like 4 ohms given the wide range right around 4 ohms. Totally agree on the Yamaha's!
 

PatF

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If you have something subjective to say just delineate it as being subjective...lol. You'll be fine..RFLMAO.
For me it was obvious that my opinion is subjective. I did not write I performed several blind test .... I wrote I would like to share my experience ... also I matched volume of amps with multimeter (as accurate as I can). I only wanted to share what I found with such sighted listening .... nothing more. I am aware of all bias an other things that play role in such listening but very few people can do proper blind tests so majority of us have no other way then looking for good measurements and finally listen in our rooms with our loudspeakers etc.
 

PatF

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Per my agreement with SIY above, I don’t disagree with your point either.
I am always on the side of measurements etc. but I also think that personal opinion without scientific ground is also interesting when properly expressed. I never stated that I have found objective truths etc. It is sad that even with pure intention I was immediately pushed to the ground because I voiced subjective opinion. This was absurd for me not scientific approach... I think we all will benefit form more friendly approach...
 

Sal1950

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I am always on the side of measurements etc. but I also think that personal opinion without scientific ground is also interesting when properly expressed.
In what way?
What new did you bring to the discussion that hasn't been, and continues being, expressed by the subjectivist cult day after day for decades? Please see my signature.
 

SIY

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I am always on the side of measurements etc. but I also think that personal opinion without scientific ground is also interesting when properly expressed. I never stated that I have found objective truths etc. It is sad that even with pure intention I was immediately pushed to the ground because I voiced subjective opinion. This was absurd for me not scientific approach... I think we all will benefit form more friendly approach...
If you make dubious sonic claims in a science-based forum, it should not surprise you to be asked about controls, and if no basic controls were implemented, it should not surprise you that your claims are not accorded any credence.
 

PatF

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never mind ... I do not have time for such discussions. I understand my mistake...
 

Jukka

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I'm always happy, are you?


LOL, I just have to laugh when folks will post purely subjective claims and then try to avoid being held to or asked about any type objective controls with that type of slippery disclaimer of his own claims ??? Why make them in the first place.
And then to strike back at SIY and ASR with the accusation,
"I see that this forum reached total level of absurd"
I'm sorry sir but as I already posted, what was absurd was your whole approach here. :facepalm:
This is a discussion forum for people to discuss, is it not?
 

SIY

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This is a discussion forum for people to discuss, is it not?
Discussing data is useful. Discussing unsupported dubious assertions is not. One is free to make them, of course, but they will not be treated as anything valid.
 

Dgob

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For what it's worth (?), I have moved onto using Genelec monitors and subs, BUT I can say that I had a pair of bridged AHB2's driving my old Revel F208's and I have nothing but praise to laud (even now) on that pairing. Marvellously subjective!
 

yyzsb

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Thanks for the responses on the NS5000 and the AHB2s. I used to have the AHB2 monos on my much harder to drive Thiel CS3.7 (now sold) and the AHB2 was both my best and worst amp. I loved how that amp sounded but on some very demanding music other more powerful amps filled the bass region with more authority. Subjective of course. :)

The AHB2 is the perfect form factor for where my NS5000 are now residing, since I need a small size amp. I am debating between getting the AHB2 monos again or the CODA #8 (again). I like the AHB2 sound the best but the #8 brings other sonic benefits that the AHB2 could not on the Thiel CS3.7. Maybe it can on the NS5000.

Another amp I am considering is the NAD M23. Though I am not certain if NAD's reliability is as good as Benchmark and CODA.

I am currently using a tricked out PeachTree GAN1. It sounds great but it is awful to use (volume, source inputs, sub-integration). I am going to use this amp with the RAAL CA-1a headphones.

The NS5000 is great in my room. This speaker will be with me until I am gone from this world.
 
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