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Review and Measurements of Benchmark AHB2 Amp

John_Siau

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I once compared Mackie HR824 (the first version) with K&H O300D. Both are active studio monitors with wave guides. An old mono recording sounded wonderful on the Mackies, it filled the room and didn't sound much like mono. Switching to the O300D destroyed this impression immediately and the music seemed to come from a very narrow and smalll strip between the speakers.
The K&H O300D studio monitors gave you exactly what should have been delivered. Sound emanating from a virtual speaker exactly centered between the two physical speakers and on the same plane. The K&H monitors use trimmers to match the high-frequency drivers to precise tolerances. This gives them a wonderful ability to keep high frequencies tightly imaged into the phantom center. We have a pair of K&H O300 monitors and I have spent lots of time listening to them and comparing them to other studio monitors (see photo of Benchmark's listening room below). If you listen closely you will discover that the phantom image is several inches wide, it is not quite a pinpoint. I attribute this to the excessive distance between each of the three drivers in the O300D. The three-way design and the size of the drivers dictated a larger driver-to-driver spacing than you would find in a two-way nearfield monitor. In our listening tests, this diver spacing spread the width of the phantom image by a few inches. Each of the two-way monitors did better in this regard than the K&H O300. Nevertheless, at the very high end of the audio spectrum, the K&H were able to keep high frequency sounds well focused in the center. I attribute this to the very precise driver trimming in the K&H monitors. On some of the other speakers shown in the photo, cymbals and other high frequencies sounds tended to move to the physical speakers. The degree to which the high frequencies move is an indication of the accuracy of the tweeter matching.

All speakers were placed at the same L/R spacing and angles relative to the listening position. Distances were measured and laser aligned. It was an interesting listening test that was very instructive. We used lots of absorptive material to reduce the room effects.
20140415_101211_resized.jpg
 

Sal1950

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Or maybe the increased noise and distortion in the A31 caused the impression. And maybe it was the increased distortion and noise that gave the A31 more body down low. Maybe he imagined all of it. I don't know.
For those whose eyes may have had a problem reading @dkfan9 highly relevant fine print. ;)
 

Blumlein 88

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As you have suggested, the frequency response variations are much too small to be significant. You would discover much larger variations between the left and right speakers and between speaker samples. You would also discover larger variations by moving you listening location by an inch or two. I would be more inclined to look at THD differences and phase response differences.

I will say that I like the numeric calculations that you have made to combine the speaker data with the amplifier data to predict the system frequency response - nice work!
Not sure I agree with you here. Differences in response over a couple or three octaves in the 1/2 db range are mildly audible. Sure maybe the speakers themselves vary this much etc. etc. But the general trend as explained by dkfan9 would still be true. It would still alter the perceived sound quality enough it would be noticed in direct comparisons.
 

John_Siau

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Not sure I agree with you here. Differences in response over a couple or three octaves in the 1/2 db range are mildly audible. Sure maybe the speakers themselves vary this much etc. etc. But the general trend as explained by dkfan9 would still be true. It would still alter the perceived sound quality enough it would be noticed in direct comparisons.
You would need to switch back and forth between the two conditions to hear a difference that small, but I agree that 1/2 dB could be audible if it was spread over a range of frequencies.

I recall a test that we did where we were detecting a 1/2 dB change that began at about 14 kHz and continued up to 20 kHz. We had 16 A/D -> D/A codecs wired in series to see if we could detect an audible change in the audio using an ABX test. We found that we could reliably detect the difference once we knew what to listen for. It turned out that the cumulative effect these cascaded A/D and D/A converters was a slight roll off of the high frequency response that was on the order of 1/2 dB between about 14K and 20K. We corrected the frequency response and then could not tell the difference between generation 1 and generation 17 in an ABX test. We demonstrated this to a group of mastering engineers at an event that we hosted at Avitar Studios in NYC a number of years ago.

But, if you are not making direct comparisons with live switching, these differences should be way too small to hear --- I think.
 

Blumlein 88

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You would need to switch back and forth between the two conditions to hear a difference that small, but I agree that 1/2 dB could be audible if it was spread over a range of frequencies.

I recall a test that we did where we were detecting a 1/2 dB change that began at about 14 kHz and continued up to 20 kHz. We had 16 A/D -> D/A codecs wired in series to see if we could detect an audible change in the audio using an ABX test. We found that we could reliably detect the difference once we knew what to listen for. It turned out that the cumulative effect these cascaded A/D and D/A converters was a slight roll off of the high frequency response that was on the order of 1/2 dB between about 14K and 20K. We corrected the frequency response and then could not tell the difference between generation 1 and generation 17 in an ABX test. We demonstrated this to a group of mastering engineers at an event that we hosted at Avitar Studios in NYC a number of years ago.

But, if you are not making direct comparisons with live switching, these differences should be way too small to hear --- I think.

I've done that same test with 8 AD/DA loops, and found the same thing. I actually swapped to a different DAC that had the slightest rise in response which perfectly offset the slight droop of the AD (which was pure luck) and you couldn't hear the difference. With the small droop in both AD and DA you could.
 

SIY

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Coincidentally, I was shown some amps last night that are claimed to double power indefinitely with halving load impedance until the mains power gives out. They did cost a skootch more than the Benchmarks...

My question to @John_Siau re the first watt white paper- the distortion residual seems to show that the bias was incorrectly set, since there's a spike at zero crossing. With the bias at an optimal level, the distortion residual maxima ought to be happening at the gm doubling points. What am I missing?
 

GrimSurfer

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The K&H O300D studio monitors gave you exactly what should have been delivered. Sound emanating from a virtual speaker exactly centered between the two physical speakers and on the same plane. The K&H monitors use trimmers to match the high-frequency drivers to precise tolerances. This gives them a wonderful ability to keep high frequencies tightly imaged into the phantom center. We have a pair of K&H O300 monitors and I have spent lots of time listening to them and comparing them to other studio monitors (see photo of Benchmark's listening room below). If you listen closely you will discover that the phantom image is several inches wide, it is not quite a pinpoint. I attribute this to the excessive distance between each of the three drivers in the O300D. The three-way design and the size of the drivers dictated a larger driver-to-driver spacing than you would find in a two-way nearfield monitor. In our listening tests, this diver spacing spread the width of the phantom image by a few inches. Each of the two-way monitors did better in this regard than the K&H O300. Nevertheless, at the very high end of the audio spectrum, the K&H were able to keep high frequency sounds well focused in the center. I attribute this to the very precise driver trimming in the K&H monitors. On some of the other speakers shown in the photo, cymbals and other high frequencies sounds tended to move to the physical speakers. The degree to which the high frequencies move is an indication of the accuracy of the tweeter matching.

All speakers were placed at the same L/R spacing and angles relative to the listening position. Distances were measured and laser aligned. It was an interesting listening test that was very instructive. We used lots of absorptive material to reduce the room effects.View attachment 26939

Following this thread closely... lots of golden nuggets!

You mentioned that 0.5 dB differences across a broad frequency range could be heard... especially when the listener was directed to listen for. The 0.5 dB figure corresponds to the acuity recognized by the medical community, which often uses pure tones whose frequencies are broadly spaced.

Since you've likely been involved in innumerable ABX tests, do you find a strong statistical correlation between your measured lab results and human auditions? Which lab measurements tend to produce the strongest effect in test subjects (you've mentioned phase sensitivity... are there others)? Are there measures that you've found are not good predictors of test subjects' likes/dislikes?
 

John_Siau

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TIME FOR SOME HUMOUR :)

(From The Audio Critic, number 23, 1995, page 5)

321273d1431802337-peter-aczel-og-audio-critic-arven-fra-en-90-r-gammel-lydkritiker-audio-critic-nummer-23-1995-side-5.jpg
This is exactly why we don't have a board of directors. Benchmark is run by engineers. As for consultants, years ago we had a man visit us who had been in the amplifier business. He told us that his market research showed that an audiophile amplifier must be big, run hot, and be expensive. I chose not to listen to his advice. This cartoon captures this dilemma perfectly! Posting it on the wall in our conference room!
 

edechamps

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You mentioned that 0.5 dB differences across a broad frequency range could be heard... especially when the listener was directed to listen for.

This is nothing new, tough. Toole & Olive have shown all the way back in 1988 that listeners could detect a frequency response peak ("resonance") as small as +0.3 dB if it's spread wide enough (Q=1 in this case). That's on pink noise; thresholds for music are higher, but not by much. The ear is amazingly good at detecting frequency response distortion if it's spread over a wide frequency range. When I read frequency response graphs, I worry much more about "tilts" and broad trends, as opposed to narrow features like sharp peaks and dips.
 

Soniclife

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As for consultants, years ago we had a man visit us who had been in the amplifier business. He told us that his market research showed that an audiophile amplifier must be big, run hot, and be expensive.
He cannot have been any good as a consultant, else he would have told you to stick some visible tubes in it as well, and told you to come up with a story about why tubes were great.
 

John_Siau

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Following this thread closely... lots of golden nuggets!

You mentioned that 0.5 dB differences across a broad frequency range could be heard... especially when the listener was directed to listen for. The 0.5 dB figure corresponds to the acuity recognized by the medical community, which often uses pure tones whose frequencies are broadly spaced.

Since you've likely been involved in innumerable ABX tests, do you find a strong statistical correlation between your measured lab results and human auditions? Which lab measurements tend to produce the strongest effect in test subjects (you've mentioned phase sensitivity... are there others)? Are there measures that you've found are not good predictors of test subjects' likes/dislikes?
Someone once said; "try to do one simple experiment each day". As much as possible, I try to do that. It may be a test on an AP test station, a listening test, or a set of calculations. I am often surprised by the results. Sometimes I am stunned. I am stunned by our ability to hear a pin drop in a relatively noisy room. It has been said, "we are fearfully and wonderfully made". The more I learn about our auditory system, the more I am amazed. There is a trillion to one power ratio between the loudest sounds we can tolerate and the softest sounds we can hear. Our ears can detect a 3 kHz tone that is 30 dB lower than a white noise masking signal (I frequently demonstrate this to high school and university students who visit Benchmark). I do this particular demonstration using an AP test station.

In most cases, our measurement systems can pick up defects that are too small to hear. But, occasionally, we hear something that we did not measure. When this happens, we have to go back to the lab and figure out what we are missing with the measurements. It is always a case of not having done the right measurement. Sometimes the "right" measurement is something entirely new. For example, Amir makes a point of running power amplifier tests at 5 W as well as at full power. The low power tests can reveal defects that may be obscured in the high-power tests. Years ago, Dick Olsher said "the first Watt is the most important Watt". I have written a paper where I contend that "the first 10 milliwatts are the most important". It was an ABX test between two amplifiers delivering 10 milliwatts into a loudspeaker. This ABX test confirmed the audibility of zero-crossing distortion in a class-AB amplifier that had very good full-power measurements. Here is the link:
https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/power-amplifiers-the-importance-of-the-first-watt

All of our tests tend to be focused on detecting audible defects. We are attempting to build transparent products and this means that we should not be able to hear a change when the product is inserted into the signal chain. We also want to know if we can hear a difference when a measured defect is turned on and off.

In most cases, it is easier to fix a measured defect than it is to prove that it is audible or inaudible. For this reason, we are highly dependent upon measurements. If all goes well, the listening tests confirm that we have not missed something in the bench measurements.

If we were attempting to make products that produced a euphonic effect, we would need to make subjective judgments about what sounds "better". "Better" is in the ear of the beholder and it can and should take you in a variety of different directions. Effects by definition add distortion, frequency response, or dynamic changes to the levels. Effects must be evaluated with listening tests while bench measurements will have a more limited role.

Studios use many devices to create sonic effects. They also use highly-transparent monitoring chains to evaluate what they are creating. Our equipment is often a part of that transparent monitoring chain. If you want to hear exactly what they intended to create, you will also need a transparent playback system. On the other hand, there are listeners that like to color the sound of their playback system to suit their own taste.
 
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John_Siau

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He cannot have been any good as a consultant, else he would have told you to stick some visible tubes in it as well, and told you to come up with a story about why tubes were great.
He did! I just forgot to mention that part.
 

GrimSurfer

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He cannot have been any good as a consultant, else he would have told you to stick some visible tubes in it as well, and told you to come up with a story about why tubes were great.

And serve single origin fair trade espresso in home made pottery mugs, fergodssakes.

Don't forget the mandatory man purses for all staff... the David Carradine onese from Kung Fu, not the designer ones from Gstaad!

On a serious note.. It nice to hear that you stuck to your guns and kept the engineers in charge. Otherwise, your first hour in the office would be spent hand grinding coffee...
 
OP
amirm

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In most cases, it is easier to fix a measured defect than it is to prove that it is audible or inaudible.
I need to put this in my signature. :)
 

GrimSurfer

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Yeah, I really liked that nugget too. There is much wisdom in it.
 

Soniclife

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And serve single origin fair trade espresso in home made pottery mugs, fergodssakes.

Don't forget the mandatory man purses for all staff... the David Carradine onese from Kung Fu, not the designer ones from Gstaad!

On a serious note.. It nice to hear that you stuck to your guns and kept the engineers in charge. Otherwise, your first hour in the office would be spent hand grinding coffee...
I resemble quite a bit of that, maybe I've missed my calling and I should have been a consultant.
 

GrimSurfer

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Me too. I get particular about my coffee and have a manual machine for extraction. It's an affectation from living in Australia, where coffee (and rugby) is taken very seriously.

I also carry a purse... whenever my wife says "hold this" at garden centres etc. But I keep all of this on the down-low. Especially the garden centre stuff!
 

Soniclife

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I get particular about my coffee and have a manual machine for extraction. It's an affectation from living in Australia, where coffee (and rugby) is taken very seriously.
I'd like to drop down to only being particular about coffee, but I'm way past that :oops:.
 

RichB

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I ordered NEUTRIK NL2FX SpeakON connectors. It seems weird not to have gold plated connectors.
Should I treat the Canare 4S11 wires with Caig contact condition before assembly?

- Rich
 
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