Revel F35 Speaker Review

[daftcombo]

eaker/amplifier/room

Years ago Peter Aczel told me that one has to take the loudspeaker/amplifier/room as one component. That is, if one wants to design and have 'the best' listening experience.

You can safely remove the amplifier from the equation, provided it just has enough power for your listening pleasure.

 

[Voo]

having just listened to f35, f206, and 228be at local dealer...I dont see how any of these measurements showcase what the speakers actually sound like. maybe amir could use his salon 2's as reference for reviews and explain how his reviews compare to his reference. I thought the f35 didnt image nearly as well as f206 or be revels.

 

[infinitesymphony]

Preference Rating
SCORE: 4.9
SCORE w/ sub: 7.4

So, these scored a mere 0.06 above the $118/pair Pioneer SP-BS22-LR, a pair of speakers where a number of owners chimed in to express how little they liked them. Hmm.

 

[Haint]

having just listened to f35, f206, and 228be at local dealer...I dont see how any of these measurements showcase what the speakers actually sound like. maybe amir could use his salon 2's as reference for reviews and explain how his reviews compare to his reference. I thought the f35 didnt image nearly as well as f206 or be revels.

Obviously imaging is heavily dependent on the positioning of both the speakers and MLP, so unless the dealer was hot swapping the speakers onto the same piece of tape, I'm not sure how much can actually be gleaned from your demo. EQ/DSP can also dramatically impact imaging, if they were perhaps running on different electronics. It's certainly possible the Performa's are noticably better, just pointing out other explanations you should consider. Rigged demos are a pretty common tactic dealers use to push higher margin or surplus product.

 

[napilopez]

having just listened to f35, f206, and 228be at local dealer...I dont see how any of these measurements showcase what the speakers actually sound like. maybe amir could use his salon 2's as reference for reviews and explain how his reviews compare to his reference. I thought the f35 didnt image nearly as well as f206 or be revels.

As noted by @Haint , there are so many things that can affect perception of spatial qualities, especially in stereo.

How did you listen to them? Were the speaker set up in the exact same location? Was everything perfectly symmetrical? How close was each speaker to the wall? What's the bass response of the individual speakers and it it exciting any particular room resonances?

That said, from existing measurements of those three models, I would expect the ranking you suggested. The f228Be appears to have the widest directivity and most similar off axis to on axis.

 

[bobbooo]

So, these scored a mere 0.06 above the $118/pair Pioneer SP-BS22-LR, a pair of speakers where a number of owners chimed in to express how little they liked them. Hmm.

Likely all of whom have only heard the Pioneer sighted. Hmm.

 

[Blumlein 88]

So, these scored a mere 0.06 above the $118/pair Pioneer SP-BS22-LR, a pair of speakers where a number of owners chimed in to express how little they liked them. Hmm.

Yeah, this formula either doesn't work as had been hoped, or something else is going on. Maybe bias against $118/pair speakers? Doesn't seem to be the case for $300/pair LSR305's.

As more testing is done, this formula looks more and more suspect. The big question is why of course as I don't doubt it matched results from Harman's work. Is Harman leaving something else out or what?

 

[Bear123]

having just listened to f35, f206, and 228be at local dealer...I dont see how any of these measurements showcase what the speakers actually sound like. maybe amir could use his salon 2's as reference for reviews and explain how his reviews compare to his reference. I thought the f35 didnt image nearly as well as f206 or be revels.

Remember, its absolutely impossible for bias to not have influenced what you heard, along with whatever actual and real differences there may have been from factors other than the speakers themselves such as different rooms, different placement, setup, etc etc. Also, there is quite a bit of extension difference between those models which has a large affect on our perception of sound quality. Eq'd the same in room, placed the same, and crossed to good subs(as they should be for high fidelity)....I'd be willing to bet the results in blind testing would be very very close.

That's what I personally find so appealing about the measurements. It eliminates all the inaccuracies and fallacies of sighted demos in stores. Narrow your choices down to speakers that measure really really well. Narrow things down further based on bookshelves mounted precariously on stands or floorstanders, price, aesthetics, and sensitivity, etc. Eq them properly in your room crossed to good subs and you will have great sound. I believe that having the speaker you like better based on brand loyalty and aesthetics will make a bigger difference on how happy you are with the sound than wether you have the KEF R3 or the Revel F35.

 

[infinitesymphony]

Well, you'd have to imagine that there are important elements the scoring is not taking into account.

Amir would not pick the Genelecs as his #1 speaker because they don't have enough SPL. At the very least you would expect the Revel F35 to go louder than the Pioneer SP-BS22-LR and perhaps the more highly rated Revel M16.

Likely all of whom have only heard the Pioneer sighted. Hmm.

Sure, but are you implying that a large number of people spent money for the privilege of being able to trash a speaker? I was surprised by how few of the speaker's owners defended it, which is what you typically see from people who enjoy something.

 

[amirm]

As more testing is done, this formula looks more and more suspect. The big question is why of course as I don't doubt it matched results from Harman's work. Is Harman leaving something else out or what?

That is where I am right now as well.

The one big factor is my measurements versus Haraman's anechoic. Before I started in this direction, I was hoping I could get access to Harman data and actual implementation of formula from them. Sadly that road dead-ended very quickly. I have not even been able to get a sample speaker Harman has measured to compare with mine. It has been very disappointing to me to have what I thought were reliable contacts at Harman to go silent on me this way.

We could do our own listening tests but boy is that a big effort to get enough data points. And with this virus going around, no way to even get started on it.

 

[daftcombo]

So let's measure the room and see what we are working with (with KEF R3 on stand):

What if you wanted to use a pair of those speakers? Would you get the same peak and EQ it out on both? Would you EQ them separately?

 

[amirm]

What if you wanted to use a pair of those speakers? Would you get the same peak and EQ it out on both? Would you EQ them separately?

I would EQ them separately.

 

[Bear123]

What if you wanted to use a pair of those speakers? Would you get the same peak and EQ it out on both? Would you EQ them separately?

Each speaker is eq'd independently as each speakers response is likely to be slightly or much different depending on the room, placement, and MLP or listening positions.

 

[tuga]

Is Harman leaving something else out or what?

The unpredictable variability of human preference?

 

[daftcombo]

Each speaker is eq'd independently as each speakers response is likely to be slightly or much different depending on the room, placement, and MLP or listening positions.

Yes but have you ever HEARD differences between speakers EQed the same (or not at all)?
While you definitely can when the EQ applied differ.

 

[Blumlein 88]

The unpredictable variability of human preference?

Well the whole, unexpected result of their work, was how rather predictable across various factors and listeners speaker preference was in their testing. That such info about what preference pointed toward allowed them to engineer speakers which would give excellent performance at any given price and level of use. The results of their work in their speakers sure seemed to bear that out.

So is there more being left unsaid by Harman? Their sudden reluctance to share with Amir seems like it might be.

Is the variability of preference a bias related thing when you know the speaker in use? That would fit with lots of other data. It doesn't however seem to fit with the Klippel based data all that well.

 

[anmpr1]

You can safely remove the amplifier from the equation, provided it just has enough power for your listening pleasure.

Generally that is the case. When Peter beamed up he was using a six channel amplifier set up for stereo (Siegfried Linkwitz' loudspeaker design). So it's not always a trivial thing when you are integrating multiple amplifiers.

 

[stunta]

So now it is not just loudspeakers, but room correction that must be accounted for?

Only if one were to ignore the measurements. The room correction only applies to Amir's subjective opinion.

 

[Ron Texas]

Likely all of whom have only heard the Pioneer sighted. Hmm.

The problem with the Pioneers is the 4" mid/low driver severely limits maximum output and bass is missing. They are probably good for a desktop setup, but 7' away they did nothing for me. I found the JBL 305P's to be far more engaging. You could do a blind test that is volume matched, but it wouldn't be fair to the other speakers unless they were similarly volume limited.

 

[BYRTT]

Thanks for doing this animation. It made me realize there is a bigger difference than just that plateau in my measurements in bass. I will have to investigate this as I hear very nice bass from this speaker.....

Also thanks the fantastic data and value, Revel F35 looks bit worse in sample to sample differense 3rd party serious analyze verse manufacture than Revel C52 did, in below animations there is more overlays to look at for F35 verse C52 and also some F35 verse M16 directivity spins that think makes one raise a eyebrow they missed something there, well at least they did for ASR's F35 sample.

If i got it right that your wife play guitar there is more than enough stuff here she could write e new Seattle blues called "Get a garage haircut down the small Klippel saloon" ...


ASR Revel C53 sample analyze 17. of January 2020 verse some manufacture sample 10 years ago:

Based on ASR spin data Revel F35 verse Revel M16 EQed flat on axis and 8th order filtered stopbands at 80Hz/7kHz, nomalize plus telephone band like view that easy split their performance differences for the eye, blue contour is - (minus) sectors for hor/ver planes and green contour is + (plus) sectors for hor/ver planes: