Reliability and build quality of Chinese Vs. Western Amps and DACs? Can you reliably get 15+ years out of a Topping Stack? Or SMSL? Singxer?

[JeremyFife]

My new washing machine is Wi-Fi enabled and 'smart' - I'll be amazed if it lasts 3 years and my wife will probably want a new one by then anyway. Costs about the same as a piece of mid-range hi-fi electronics. Welcome to first world economics and problems. (not saying I like this, or agree)

 

[Doodski]

I still using a Jolida CD-100 player bought in 2002 which made in Shanghai , but if look inside : vacuum tubes are 12AX7LPS from EH Russia, DAC chip is PCM1716e from USA but layout in Taiwan, coupling capacitors made by Thompson were owned by French, the CD movement is Philips CD-12 were running by bloody Dutch but assembled in China. Those parts all put in an metal case under UL safety standard.
It's a typical question from "American idiots" , today , the global trading is based on the economic globalization which was invented by Americans themself.

Very esoteric CD player. I expect this sort of hybrid design when esoteric gear comes a knocking. So I am not surprised but I think I agree with you?

6moons.com - audio reviews: JoLida JD-100 tubed CD player

Jolida JD 100 A - tube CD player [English]

 

[Roland68]

In Europe, any household appliance, vacuum cleaner, coffee maker, washing machine, must be accompanied at the point of sale by a sheet specifying its energy index and the time during which the manufacturer undertakes to provide spare parts, etc.
I might as well tell you that if I had known that Panasonic would no longer provide original lamps for a projector 5 years after the discontinuation of the last model using it, or that almost all hi-fi brands would leave turntable owners in the lurch CD, SACD, DVD so quickly after the sale... including models sold for several thousand euros... I would have passed on in the first case or bought three lamps in advance (350 euros each anyway) or bought two lenses with its training support (50-100 euros each) rather than having to go through OEM lamps which are the lottery (and will therefore ensure a lamp...) or replacement mechanics...
For the mechanics: Rega had resolved the problem with its THDG by automatically providing a replacement mechanics with the new model...
But it gets complicated: if you change a multi-standard mechanism yourself, you will always be missing the laser disc used to adjust the focuses... and the official service stations of the brands no longer even have them in certain cases...
Rather than foolishly and arbitrarily regulating the way manufacturers announce the power of amplifiers, the authorities should seriously look into the repairability of domestic audio and video devices which are cluttering up recycling centers....

Basically, as an end user, you can only wipe your backside with all the rules and laws in the EU that have been made for repairs, spare parts, etc. Please excuse the language, but that hits the nail on the head.

Recently, two not-so-cheap Bauknecht appliances, a dishwasher and a fridge/freezer combo, broke shortly after the 5-year guarantee period. Bauknecht refrigerators cannot be repaired, the dishwasher repair costs are the same as a new appliance, and spare parts are not available to the end customer.

Apart from a handful of manufacturers, you have to assume that if such items break after the warranty period, they are only worth scrap and you should take this into account when buying.
In the case of cheap devices purchased on other continents, this should also be done during the warranty period, as the shipping costs and effort are usually not worth it.

 

[Roland68]

My new washing machine is Wi-Fi enabled and 'smart' - I'll be amazed if it lasts 3 years and my wife will probably want a new one by then anyway. Costs about the same as a piece of mid-range hi-fi electronics. Welcome to first world economics and problems. (not saying I like this, or agree)

Maybe the washing machine is smart enough to order a new one for you a week before it breaks?

 

[JeremyFife]

Maybe the washing machine is smart enough to order a new one for you a week before it breaks?

That's the worry!!

 

[Haskil]

Basically, as an end user, you can only wipe your backside with all the rules and laws in the EU that have been made for repairs, spare parts, etc. Please excuse the language, but that hits the nail on the head.

Recently, two not-so-cheap Bauknecht appliances, a dishwasher and a fridge/freezer combo, broke shortly after the 5-year guarantee period. Bauknecht refrigerators cannot be repaired, the dishwasher repair costs are the same as a new appliance, and spare parts are not available to the end customer.

Apart from a handful of manufacturers, you have to assume that if such items break after the warranty period, they are only worth scrap and you should take this into account when buying.
In the case of cheap devices purchased on other continents, this should also be done during the warranty period, as the shipping costs and effort are usually not worth it.

A Whirlpool washing machine purchased in 2011 by a friend has just failed: the pump was broken... cost of repair: 60 euros pump + travel (twice) and labor: which adds up to 180 euros bill. .. but as we are in France and the evil Macron has seen to it, the price of the repair will be reduced by 50 euros because the State reimburses them to encourage people to have it repaired rather than thrown away and thus develop repair centers. .. it interested me because I bought the same one the same year by chance!
But that's not what I was talking about, just the obligation on the manufacturer to say how long the parts will be available after the model is discontinued...

But the fact that certain brands keep repair parts captive and charge colossal prices to dissuade repairs is another story... And the consumer must now verify this point by looking up the price of the parts on the internet before buying. and talk about it with consumer defense organizations who love these stories and demolish the manufacturers who play this little game...

 

[AdamG]

It's a typical question from "American idiots"

You are new here so this is your first “hall pass”. Please don’t say stuff like this about any race or country. Welcome Aboard @hyperma.

 

[OldHvyMec]

globalization which was invented by Americans themself.

You're a few hundred years off and by region a few thousand. Americans may have play a part in it, but the whole world has had global shipping
for 100 years. 90% of cargo containers were not made, in the US. Green beans could be picked in Mexico, canned in Brazil, and shipped to Romania
for consumption, by a shipper out of Denmark

As far as products assembled in China, That is as diversified as Chevrolet vs Ford. No TWO manufactures are the same and it is strictly dependent
on QC just like any manufacturing company. I've never had to send anything back to China. BUT I have bought a considerable quantity of cabling
from China and once upon a time Russia. The Chinese mom and pop cable manufactures I delt with were wonderful with great pricing and delivery
times.

I have a little "Douk Audio" USB, DAC, Headphone (valve) preamp that is 8-9 years old. The 1/8" plugs was funky but the rest works fine for a
system I built for under 900.00 usd including Infinity RS4Bs, VMPS QSO 808s speakers, CD (Sony ES), cabling, 50x2/100x1 watt class
D amplifiers I got from PE for 39.00 each. The 808s will play to an honest 25hz and I use the low pass filter on the amp (100 watt bass) I wired
the 808 in parallel for 4 ohms/ mono sub. I paid 250.00 for both pairs at a garage sale. I did have to do surrounds on the RS4bs but the seller
had new tweeter repair kits and surrounds. The lady just wanted them GONE and thanked ME for picking them up on the spot. That system
is killer. The tone control is pretty friggin' good, considering I paid 59.00 USD for the preamp/DAC. The Sony ES was EBay special.

I use the Music Chanel, CDs and a Galaxy S3 for MP3s. Shop special!

 

[peng]

I had a feeling before I posted that everyone would say "Buy the RME Adi-2 DAC/Amp"

I know it's a great product. It's probably the best product for me. I just hate how ugly it is to me, and that stupid screen. It's a bitter pill to swallow, but it's not the end of the world.

Definitely not everyone! To me, any of the SMSL or Topping that has the features you need will likely be just as good but no one can know that for sure. I have a couple, no issues at all but they are not 20 years old. Even if they were, there would be no guarantee that all of such products will last as long because there are many factors.

 

[hyperma]

Very esoteric CD player. I expect this sort of hybrid design when esoteric gear comes a knocking. So I am not surprised but I think I agree with you?

6moons.com - audio reviews: JoLida JD-100 tubed CD player

Jolida JD 100 A - tube CD player [English]

A very loose assembly quality, brain dead simple circuit included a pair classical triode SRPPs for both channel , but beats lots DACs on a 10 devices review , finally lose to Lavry DA2002.

 

[Yasunari]

Hello everyone,

I'm trying to find a solid-state DAC and Amp stack for around $900 USD, with plans to add a power amp in the future (so the headphone amp needs to double as a preamp with a switch for the preamp outputs).

I've identified a few good companies: Schiit, RME, Topping, SMSL, Singxer, etc.

I am very interested in buying an E70 / L70 stack from Topping, but their build quality and reliability seem to be the worst of all brands, and I've heard similar complaints from all of the chinese-production brands. There are MANY threads on MANY different forums and websites talking about chinese-brand audio equipment being DOA, or dying within only a few months or a year.

Now, I want to state that I am not one of those racist guys who just assumes that everything from China is garbage "Because China". I know Chinese manufacturing well, from other aspects of my life, and I know they can absolutely put out some of the best-made stuff in the world, when their factories are contracted to do so.

What I don't know is where domestic brands like Topping, SMSL, Singxer, etc. fall on this spectrum of quality. Are they TRYING to put out reliable products, with 15+ year lifespans, or are they only trying to put out HIGH PERFORMANCE products?

I am fully expecting to get at least 10, 15+ years out of my stack, because frankly, anything less is absolutely unacceptable, and I would ideally like to get 20+ years, or until the capacitors reach their chemical end.

Do you all think it's reasonable to expect this kind of lifespan from Topping, SMSL, Singxer, etc? If you had to recommend a few $900 DAC/Amp stacks prioritizing reliability, which brands would you recommend? Do you think Schiit is more reliable than these chinese brands?

Thank you!

Hello,

Just sharing with you. My Topping TP22 (Tripath Class-T) bought in 2013 and still in working now.

 

[hyperma]

You're a few hundred years off and by region a few thousand. Americans may have play a part in it, but the whole world has had global shipping
for 100 years. 90% of cargo containers were not made, in the US. Green beans could be picked in Mexico, canned in Brazil, and shipped to Romania
for consumption, by a shipper out of Denmark

As far as products assembled in China, That is as diversified as Chevrolet vs Ford. No TWO manufactures are the same and it is strictly dependent
on QC just like any manufacturing company. I've never had to send anything back to China. BUT I have bought a considerable quantity of cabling
from China and once upon a time Russia. The Chinese mom and pop cable manufactures I delt with were wonderful with great pricing and delivery
times.

I have a little "Douk Audio" USB, DAC, Headphone (valve) preamp that is 8-9 years old. The 1/8" plugs was funky but the rest works fine for a
system I built for under 900.00 usd including Infinity RS4Bs, VMPS QSO 808s speakers, CD (Sony ES), cabling, 50x2/100x1 watt class
D amplifiers I got from PE for 39.00 each. The 808s will play to an honest 25hz and I use the low pass filter on the amp (100 watt bass) I wired
the 808 in parallel for 4 ohms/ mono sub. I paid 250.00 for both pairs at a garage sale. I did have to do surrounds on the RS4bs but the seller
had new tweeter repair kits and surrounds. The lady just wanted them GONE and thanked ME for picking them up on the spot. That system
is killer. The tone control is pretty friggin' good, considering I paid 59.00 USD for the preamp/DAC. The Sony ES was EBay special.

I use the Music Chanel, CDs and a Galaxy S3 for MP3s. Shop special!

VMPS QSO 808s.....you can always trust a pair three way speakers, regardless of its price.

 

[Doodski]

10 devices review

What kind of controls did they use for this test? Like matching the output level with a voltmeter to ensure one DAC is not louder than another?

 

[Petrushka]

My new washing machine is Wi-Fi enabled and 'smart' - I'll be amazed if it lasts 3 years and my wife will probably want a new one by then anyway. Costs about the same as a piece of mid-range hi-fi electronics. Welcome to first world economics and problems. (not saying I like this, or agree)

I have a Samsung washer that was used for a year and spent four years in storage. A rat got into it while in storage, and did something to the drain pump. New pump, $80, plus a couple of hours installing it. (I’m 78, and not as limber as I was.)

Washers are not particularly difficult to diagnose and fix. Samsung has no transmission. If the main motor dies, it’s dead.

 

[Petrushka]

If you are talking about 15 to 30 years for a high density circuit board, you are discussing whiskering. None of the components are likely to fail. Solid capacitors, mostly. Not many shops are going to do board repairs.

I would like to live in a world where you could buy boards and cases separately, and devices are user upgradable. Like PCs were for 30 years.

 

[Haskil]

Topping and SMSL have excellent measurements at very competitive prices but in my experience:

• They have software/firmware bugs I haven't encountered with devices from US, Canadian or German companies.
• Their software/firmware updates are poorly supported (one update came through a link here on ASR that a year later never showed up on the company's web site).
• The warranty support is quite poor - buy it through Amazon and at least get 30 days.
• I've had hardware failures after just over a year.

Are you sure? Among North American and European brands, Nad, Anthem, Emotiva, Cambridge Audio, McIntosh for example have had, to varying degrees, software bugs. And not just these brands... in fact almost all the brands with integrated HC and streamer in their catalog have had them... and I'm moving to IT because of the problems of these brands: Windows and Apple have accumulated them..

 

[hyperma]

What kind of controls did they use for this test? Like matching the output level with a voltmeter to ensure one DAC is not louder than another?

A second hand AP2722 and Hioki sets, the Antelop won every challenge on paper followed by Merging.

 

[ShadowFiend]

As a electronic engineer, I don't see any potential problem with reliablity of chinese DACs. Build quality is good. After all, Chinese or weatern DACs right now are mostly built in PCB manufacturer and assembler in China. But I have serious concern of their amplifiers, especially classAB ones, in term of thermal reliablity.

 

[Sokel]

But I have serious concern of their amplifiers, especially classAB ones, in term of thermal reliablity.

It's the distance.
Size and weight can add a significant amount to the shipped price,to the point it can become no more competitive.
And of course such heavy packages need thorough packaging so to land safe to the buyer.

And then there's the case of what would need to return such a package if faulty,etc.
It's difficult without (brick and mortar) local dealers.

 

[ShadowFiend]

But the question here is reliability, which is purely technical terms, not economical. And the size and weight also affects all manufacturers. Why make it as an excuse for manufacturers from certain country?