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Trinnov is ideal. Dirac (on MiniDSP) sounds very similar in my limited testing, it's just clunky and lacks the features of a studio monitoring controller in comparison to Trinnov. But if you just need a box to sit between the DAW outputs and the monitor inputs, it's absolutely fine and far more cost effective.

I also wouldn't go back now... nothing has moved translation forward for me more than Trinnov and Dirac.

Sonarworks seems to lack the phase linearisation that happens in Trinnov and Dirac's FIRs which (again, in my limited experience) makes more difference in some rooms than others. It feels more like just a PEQ. Maybe I'm wrong.

IN8 is a good speaker, kinda the minimum performance I'd look for to get a decent mix done on, in conjunction with room correction of course. I like the IN8.
Good to know for sure, thanks. And good to hear that you like the Kali IN8s. Definitely very high on my list now. Heard a lot of good things about them and seen them in two Atmos studios already.
 
I was actually looking into getting system like Trinnov but after consulting a few engineers who all agreed that this is not needed in a well treated room, I put it off my option list. Is there any latency? I am not just mixing / mastering but also producing and for that 0 latency is critical.
If possible have a dealer demo in your room.

I was ready to purchase a monitor upgrade at the 5k price point but bought the Trinnov instead.

There is latency but not noticeable to me. I would bypass for tracking though for 0 latency.
 
I doubt better monitors will help with translation to phone speakers. What specifically is the problem when your mixes are played back on phone speakers?

If I should hazard a guess, it sounds like you may have an issue with how you apply compression to your tracks compared to what's normal for the genre you're mixing / mastering.
 
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Does anyone else here use the old trick of band limit their monitoring sometimes? Or use NS10s..? Ha.

I don't think it's about compromising a mix for phone speakers, but I definitely think remembering the old "get the mids right and the rest of the mix will fall into place" thing is crucial, more so today perhaps, now that very wide band monitoring is everywhere, but so is listening on phones/laptops with even less bass than a cheap 1980s car radio.
 
Does anyone else here use the old trick of band limit their monitoring sometimes? Or use NS10s..? Ha.

I don't think it's about compromising a mix for phone speakers, but I definitely think remembering the old "get the mids right and the rest of the mix will fall into place" thing is crucial, more so today perhaps, now that very wide band monitoring is everywhere, but so is listening on phones/laptops with even less bass than a cheap 1980s car radio.
You would be surprised how good even tablet can sound. As long as your time domain remains stellar and damn thing can do it you can emulate pretty much (almost) anything on it (space, other speaker, distortion...). To a physical limits of course (sub bass).
 
You would be surprised how good even tablet can sound
Maybe my 1980s base spec car speaker analogy is unfair. These devices do sound very good, for drivers usually less than 1" diameter (less in a phone) and in basically no height at all. It just doesn't come as surprise because it's evolved over decades.

But they're still probably the things we might listen to content on with the most compromised (not flat, not extended) frequency output these days. Thus they're the thing a mix might sound most different on. All you can really do is mix on monitors which aren't too "colorful" in themselves.
 
Maybe my 1980s base spec car speaker analogy is unfair. These devices do sound very good, for drivers usually less than 1" diameter (less in a phone) and in basically no height at all. It just doesn't come as surprise because it's evolved over decades.

But they're still probably the things we might listen to content on with the most compromised (not flat, not extended) frequency output these days. Thus they're the thing a mix might sound most different on. All you can really do is mix on monitors which aren't too "colorful" in themselves.
IMG_20250421_110739.jpg

iPad Pro 11 for demonstration it's - 6 at 70 Hz so not worse than small speakers. Samsung also have good one's. Rest are worse but even good phone will hold the line to 100 Hz. Of course it's not great but for casual listening, podcasts, audio books it will be more than fine. Kids usually use small BT speakers which aren't really better but that's how it goes and they are still largest consumers. It won't be full range but presence should be felt in low end and that's best you can achieve by proper mixing. They also use IEM's intensively and are not stupid and in that regard are way ahead of what we had while growing up (on ear Walkman with similar response as tablets built in speakers).
 
The ts just must deliver a balanced mix, aiming for a good sound on hundreds of different smartphones is nuts.
 
iPad Pro 11 for demonstration it's - 6 at 70 Hz so not worse than small speakers. Samsung also have good one's. Rest are worse but even good phone will hold the line to 100 Hz
Yes, absolutely. And of course I've looked at various phone FR plots over the years.

Sorry, I can't tell if you're showing us that graph to disagree with something I said, though? Or just as a casual point of interest?
 
Yes, absolutely. And of course I've looked at various phone FR plots over the years.

Sorry, I can't tell if you're showing us that graph to disagree with something I said, though? Or just as a casual point of interest?
Just to highlight how things are and comparation from our childhood which we then took as very good (on ear headset and Walkman). To remind everyone how that's nothing new regarding mixing nor all that bad.
 
Oh I see, that's very fair. Perhaps my comment about things being worsened today is not so. Although, while I appreciate the intent, I would just lightly contend that iPad is an extreme example as they are absolutely SOTA for tablets or even laptop class devices, most phones (even iPhone 16 which is excellent, for a phone) are far worse. 200Hz -6 and +/- 15dB through the rest of the range is not uncommon. But I guess even that isn't necessarily worse than the old days.
 
First things first: I mix with the exact same speakers as you, so I don’t have any translation issues across different playback systems. Smartphones, in particular, aren’t the most challenging in this regard.

For smartphone translation, the solution is simple: apply a mono utility on your master bus and use an EQ with a low cut at 150 Hz. If your mix retains enough harmonic content under these conditions, it will translate effortlessly to smartphone speakers. Clearly, if your bass is a sine wave at 40 hz, it will never translate to a smartphone speaker. If Andrew Scheps is avaible to have an amazing translation mixing on cheap headphones is mainly because he know perfectly what matter in the midrange to have great translation.

I’m always cautious when I hear statements like: "The acoustic treatment of my room is okay—could be improved for sure, though. I've done some EQing with the hardware EQ on the Focals. I tried using Sonarworks, but for some reason, it wouldn’t work because it couldn't get a proper signal during one step of the process."

If you have measurements of your room, please share them. Otherwise, it’s impossible to determine whether your space actually sounds ok for a mixing room or not. The average untreated room exhibits ±10 to 15 dB of non-linearity across the frequency spectrum—and that’s not even addressing time-domain issues, which tend to be worse. Nothing like foam panel or little rockwool panel can solve the low end issues. Often, it will worsen the unbalance between the RT in the low and in the mid / high register.

It's very difficult to achieve a neutral frequency response in the lower spectrum. When using porous treatment (such as rock wool), you need at least 30 cm covering the entire ceiling and walls to start having a real impact on the low frequencies.

As a result, it's far more likely that your translation issues stem from your room and your experience, which probably has peaks and dips exceeding 10 dB in the low end, rather than from your speakers, which cover 40 Hz – 35 kHz with a tolerance of ±3 dB.

That being said, while the Shape speakers are good, there are clearly better options available today—especially speakers with narrower directivity (particularly in the vertical plane) and better group delay, which I consider the main drawback of passive radiators.

However, if your goal is better sound and improved translation, I would start by taking measurements (unless you've already done so), addressing major room issues, and then considering new speakers—potentially ones that can compensate for your room's challenges.

For example, cardioid speakers can help mitigate reflections from the desk in the midrange, and if you have an unsolvable rom mode at 35 Hz, there’s no real advantage in getting speakers that extend down to 30 Hz, as they wouldn’t effectively improve the situation and there is nothing in this area that can't be fixed in mastering. (most issues are between 40 hz (low E of the bass) and 150 hz) If i was you, in a rental situation, honestly, my choice will be a pair of KH150 and a pair of PSI AVAA in adition to some decents panels (10 cm thick mini) to create relexion free zone until the low mid at your listening position. Desk design and stands are really important too.

Finally, be cautious with recommendations from well-known engineers. First, because they are often endorsed, and second, because many make their choices based on what others use, without necessarily having had the chance to listen to different monitors in their own space.

It is very rare—if not impossible to find a store nearby with a properly treated acoustic environment where you can compare 5-6 speakers priced above €2000 each, all positioned correctly.

As a result, some speakers become "reference monitors" simply because many people use them, even though they are actually suboptimal. A good example is several PMC models, which don’t measure well but are still widely found in studios.
 
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First things first: I mix with the exact same speakers as you, so I don’t have any translation issues across different playback systems. Smartphones, in particular, aren’t the most challenging in this regard.

For smartphone translation, the solution is simple: apply a mono utility on your master bus and use an EQ with a low cut at 150 Hz. If your mix retains enough harmonic content under these conditions, it will translate effortlessly to smartphone speakers. Clearly, if your bass is a sine wave at 40 hz, it will never translate to a smartphone speaker. If Andrew Scheps is avaible to have an amazing translation mixing on cheap headphones is mainly because he know perfectly what matter in the midrange to have great translation.

I’m always cautious when I hear statements like: "The acoustic treatment of my room is okay—could be improved for sure, though. I've done some EQing with the hardware EQ on the Focals. I tried using Sonarworks, but for some reason, it wouldn’t work because it couldn't get a proper signal during one step of the process."

If you have measurements of your room, please share them. Otherwise, it’s impossible to determine whether your space actually sounds ok for a mixing room or not. The average untreated room exhibits ±10 to 15 dB of non-linearity across the frequency spectrum—and that’s not even addressing time-domain issues, which tend to be worse. Nothing like foam panel or little rockwool panel can solve the low end issues. Often, it will worsen the unbalance between the RT in the low and in the mid / high register.

It's very difficult to achieve a neutral frequency response in the lower spectrum. When using porous treatment (such as rock wool), you need at least 30 cm covering the entire ceiling and walls to start having a real impact on the low frequencies.

As a result, it's far more likely that your translation issues stem from your room and your experience, which probably has peaks and dips exceeding 10 dB in the low end, rather than from your speakers, which cover 40 Hz – 35 kHz with a tolerance of ±3 dB.

That being said, while the Shape speakers are good, there are clearly better options available today—especially speakers with narrower directivity (particularly in the vertical plane) and better group delay, which I consider the main drawback of passive radiators.

However, if your goal is better sound and improved translation, I would start by taking measurements (unless you've already done so), addressing major room issues, and then considering new speakers—potentially ones that can compensate for your room's challenges.

For example, cardioid speakers can help mitigate reflections from the desk in the midrange, and if you have an unsolvable rom mode at 35 Hz, there’s no real advantage in getting speakers that extend down to 30 Hz, as they wouldn’t effectively improve the situation and there is nothing in this area that can't be fixed in mastering. (most issues are between 40 hz (low E of the bass) and 150 hz) If i was you, in a rental situation, honestly, my choice will be a pair of KH150 and a pair of PSI AVAA in adition to some decents panels (10 cm thick mini) to create relexion free zone until the low mid at your listening position. Desk design and stands are really important too.

Finally, be cautious with recommendations from well-known engineers. First, because they are often endorsed, and second, because many make their choices based on what others use, without necessarily having had the chance to listen to different monitors in their own space.

It is very rare—if not impossible to find a store nearby with a properly treated acoustic environment where you can compare 5-6 speakers priced above €2000 each, all positioned correctly.

As a result, some speakers become "reference monitors" simply because many people use them, even though they are actually suboptimal. A good example is several PMC models, which don’t measure well but are still widely found in studios.
very nice post!



I find it kinda baffling the notion that op thinks he needs better speakers when his room is not properly isolated, nor does he use software for room correction properly, and the notion that they think getting better monitors will fix phone translation.

Frankly, i have witnessed far to many times people siuffering from FOMO and GAS and spend a lot of money on expensive monitors instead of fixing room or getting good room correction.

I know people that bought few thousand bucks monitors and subs only to come to a painful realization and dissapointment that they are of no use for checking low end since they needs to spend
much more money for properly treating .

hmm.. perhaps a downgrade would be better, combination of
1. good headphones and iems for checking low end would help (or if op is really obssesed with iphone translation i presume iphone ot galaxy has some eq curves you can find online and one can put it on the master buss, or vsx slates have iphone simulation if i remember correctly.. , athough the best thing is what OBoreal says to cut below 150hz on master)
2. and using adam d3v, kali lp unf for desktop ??
 
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Copy paste from my other reply:
Usually it is that the bass is too strong and there are problems in the mids / upper mids and/or highs that are glaringly obvious when listening on a smartphone but are hard to hear on the Focals even when knowing what to listen for. I resorted to turning up the hardware EQ for the lows and highs on the Focals to make them more prominent but still they lack detail that I can so easily hear on the phone.
Do you also use headphones while mixing? You should be able to pick up those issues easily that way.

Thank you. Yes, mobile phone speakers.
Ok, nevermind what I said. Just stop mixing for mobile phone speakers.
 
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