Recommended items on this site base on performance alone not reliability.

[MaxwellsEq]

No domestic equipment manufacturer is guaranteed to always produce reliable products, unless they invest in a full destructive test rig and pass on the cost of this testing to their buyers. And even then things can go wrong.

At any one time, even famous and / or expensive brands may have a product in their line-up which goes on to have a high failure rate down the line. The best well known are failure mechanisms are to do with bad batches of electrolytic capacitors.

 

[dualazmak]

ACCUPHASE warranty and services; ref here and here.
At least in Japan, still I (we) can expect and get similar level of services from YAMAHA, DENON, LUXMAN, TECHNICS (PANASONIC), TAD, and other major HiFi audio companies.

 

[Haskil]

I don't really understand, once again, this type of recrimination centered on Chinese products which are, I quote: "junk"...

Besides that I own three Chinese devices including an amplifier under my television under continuous power for at least 5 years, a Topping DX3 pro headphone amp DAC and a THX AAA analog headphone amp which to date have not suffered from any breakdown or failure - even the Topping remote control is impeccable - I have a collection of CD, SACD, DVD and Blu ray players that are faulty and irreparable by their manufacturers which are major brands (Sony, Denon, Pioneer, Panasonic...) incapable of maintaining laser mechanics in their catalog even for players sold for 1500 euros when they were released... And for the Blu ray player, it is not repairable at all two years after it was put on the market. the market...
What does repairable mean these days? A Sony flat screen television breaks down after 3 years: Sony does not repair the motherboard, but replaces it with a new one costing 650 euros... When we compare the old and the new what do we see? The processor is now equipped with a cooling radiator added by hand to the new card and clearly visible - and the updates have been disabled... Couldn't we have changed just the processor? Of course... and in fact a small independent French company does it for many models, but not mine!
An amplified Kef speaker breaks down, one more, the manufacturer replaces the card, but does not change only the 2 or 3 faulty capacitors.

 

[drodgers]

Is there a reasonable way that ASR could provide objective reliability data in the same way that it provides performance data? Traditional MTBF testing is pretty industrial (eg. run 1000 units for a month under extreme conditions to infer long term performance) and not suited for self/crowd-funded DIY volunteers.

Maybe we could do some sort of pre-registered poll where people mark that they've purchased an item, then they get an automatic question about reliability 3, 6, 12, 24 months later? There would still be responder bias in that people who had reliability problems may be more likely to respond to the followup, but I guess that effect should be somewhat consistent between products, so the relative results may still be worthwhile.

 

[vert]

I have four such Chinese items: one DAC, one HP amp and two amps. None had any issues. All bought from Audiophonics, so covered by a warranty, despite a border to cross. An issue known beforehand, which might have turned into a problem is such items were "junk", which they are not.

 

[killdozzer]

There is a preponderance of Chinese products in the recommended list of reviews. SMSL, Topping, and many others. I own at least a dozen of these, fortunately all below the €200 mark. Although I use some very rarely many have become defective. I concur and agree with Amir's test on the performance of these items, but they should be regarded as disposables. I have no intention of looking up the the individual warranties, finding the distributors when there is one, exchanging multiple emails, shipping at my cost and other various time consuming expenses. These wonderful and exceptional items will end up in the dust bin. I think it should be pointed out that many of us are in this situation.

But imagine one guy - amir - reviewing dozens of products a week and then doing a reliability test for them. So he spends hours and hours running around his shop flicking switches on and off, unplugging cables, plugging them back in, dropping units on the floor, and smoking heavily all along, spraying gear with water, putting them under the sun, putting them in the freezer... Simulating extreme weather...

Another reason why it wouldn't tell you much is because you wouldn't know whose use is being tested. I never ever had anything failing on me (ordered from AliExpress), but I'm just one of those guys; my seasonal clothing lasts 10 - 15 years. rarely anything breaks down and when it does there's a good chance I'll fix it.

Maybe you weren't gentle enough...

The important thing being, amir never said; "your grandchildren will use it one day". Just that it performs well.

 

[killdozzer]

Sorry for the double post. It was an accident.

 

[Scytales]

Here in Europe nothing can be repaired for 150 Dollars.

I don't know where you live, but here, in France, there are some repairers that can fix electronic devices for that kind of money or even less if the fault is not that complicated.

 

[Theta]

I don't know where you live, but here, in France, there are some repairers that can fix electronic devices for that kind of money or even less if the fault is not that complicated.

Great, I am in Brussels, do you know anybody near Lille?

 

[Scytales]

You got an MP!

 

[thatrabidhobo]

Can't help but wonder why those who request additional time-consuming testing forget sites like this are from people contributing to the hobby in their spare time. It's not a business trying to "grow its consumer value" for more revenue.

 

[Purité Audio]

Products do sometimes fail, what is important is that the manufacturer ( wherever in the world they might be) responds quickly and rectifies the issue.
Keith

 

[JeremyFife]

One thing I have re-learned (I knew, but allowed myself to get overexcited) is not to be an early adopter. Read some longer term reviews, take my time.
Case study: joined ASR, saw the reviews for the Topping PA5 (original), bought one, then the failure reports came rolling in! Mine has been repaired by Topping now and is fabulous - but that was a chastening time!
I'll cheerfully buy Topping etc again, but not very new models and not models where I can't find longer term review comments.

That's a general lesson though, not just HiFi

 

[SuicideSquid]

My point is quite quiet clear. These recommended items are often junk, having bought too much of it is not at all a problem, I am an adult, I am not complaining, I am cautioning others not to do the same if they can't afford it..

A sample size of one can never give conclusive evidence about reliability. You don't know if your experience is representative of the norm or not.

Of 100,000 manufactured devices, how many failed in a year? If 50 out of 100,000 failed, that's an extremely reliable device. If 10,000 of 100,000 failed, that's a terribly unreliable device. You've got no way of knowing if the broken gear you've got is 1 of 50, or 1 of 10,000.

 

[fatoldgit]

So we know the usual Chinese brands provide value for money and also generally measure well.

ASR is basically the only place that measures them objectively... the establishment magazines basically never review them and of those only Stereophile provides ASR level measurements...and youtubers are basically all subjective as well.

So ASR has two advantages with products in this space:

1- the measurements
2- the end users that buy these products and report back on issues (functional stuff like software glitches or hard fails with say amp channels burning out)

So ASR does by default, via it's readership, provide reliability reports.

Thus the logic is.... a product is reviewed... it's the Bee's Knee's and you are interested in it... just wait a few months, keep checking the review thread and let other "suckers" do the reliability tests for you. If after 3 months all is well then pull the trigger.

Peter


PS. I see @JeremyFife above stole my logic... bastard!!!!...must be a mind reader